DevilDog438

My understanding is that the rank & file TSO have no power to physically restrain anyone at any time; only a LEO has the power to physically restrain someone passing through a security C/P.

RichardKenner

Oh, and #35!

What one person considers being "led" somewhere, another may consider "grabbing and taking". But I think most of the discussion here was about the LEO actions, not TSA's. And I think there are things you can do to an LEO short of physically assualting them that could and should get you handcuffed.

There are just lots of things in this story that make it sounds like huge pieces were omitted.

gj83

Some datapoints to get out of the way:
1. I'm a libertarian
2. i'm a regular listener of Free Talk Live and I'm an AMPer
3. I'm a woman

My opinion of this:
I've only flown out of the US Airways and Airtran area of FLL, but 2 years ago I thought it was a horribly laid out check point. Maybe when they renovated it to put in body scanners they fixed the layout, but it had very awkward angles.

the people who are associated with FTL definitely do instigate many of the situations they encounter. They hold regular "4/20" rallies holding marijuana at some public areas of Keene, NH. They also fight to bring video cameras into court houses, they refuse to stand when a judge enters a court room, they all open carry (except Mark since he can't possess a firearm legally). All of those (except the MJ part) are legal, but they find ways to make sure to create an issue with many of them.

What surprises me most about Meg's experience is that a)she wasn't actively video taping up to the point she got to the check point and b) she didn't have someone else around her actively videotaping. These people live off of "the camera is the new gun" and videotape everywhere. Another periodic FTL cohost Sam Dodson had a thread on FT about his encounter with TSA at DTW. He had the whole event on video.

The people she was visiting in FL also constantly videotape so I wonder why they didn't escort her to the airport.

I believe some holes are missing. If she refused the WBI and refused the pat-down then this situation makes sense. If she didn't actually refuse the pat-down but just "asked questions" then it makes no sense and she might have a case.

gsoltso

TSA response is in:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/11/response...cuffed-to.html

Watch the videos and see what happened and you can compare from there.

janetdoe

She says, "So I went to Fort Lauderdale to fly out of Miami here". I don't see any confusion. She flew out of FLL at the end of her visit to the Miami area. It's quite clear in her first-hand account that she was at FLL.

Similarly, a statement that "I drove to Orange County to fly home from Los Angeles" would surely indicate that I flew through SNA for my trip to the LA area.

I think there is a common understanding that co-terminal airports can be referred to by the name of the large metropolitan area nearby without undue confusion.

DevilDog438

No audio means we miss a great deal of contextual information.

She is off-camera for over three minutes while the TSO in the vest gets continually more confrontational (body language). It appears that FLL TSA intentionally placed this inspection area in a position that is not seen on camera, or is intentionally not releasing the video that would show the activities in that area during the three minutes she is off-camera. Based on that, I would say the only conclusion we can make is that she was not handcuffed to that particular chair and not physically restrained by any TSO; although, she is readily seen to be emotional from the confrontation.

The exit video is only useful in showing how many BSO and TSA personnel showed up. It is a long-range shot, done with a camera that is apparently placed too close to a light source, with no iris correction. It also provides no visibility to the actual area where the activity took place (the wall of the exit and the signage/equipment are placed so that nothing can be seen around them). Once again, inconclusive in either direction as to the physical activities claimed.

exbayern

I thought the same - although the overweight female TSO in the left side of the screen also has aggressive body language right from the start of the interaction.

I actually thought that this could be a good training video for TSO on how to escalate a situation rather than difuse a situation. Count how many TSOs for instance initially surround the area (and we cannot see the ones to the right) and watch the body language and hand movements. Also note the several TSOs doing other duties who stop paying attention to their own duties to observe from afar.

TSORon

Ever tried to hear a conversation across the checkpoint? It cant be done. Microphones would be useless in that environment and just about everyone here knows that. @:-)

No actually she isn’t. You can still see her hands and the gestures she is making. She is totally off screen for only a few seconds at a time, and then because she moved out of camera range, not because someone moved her. @:-)

So, you want cameras covering every square inch of all airports? Ready to pay for it?

She made the decision to be emotional about the situation. I have made the decision not to feel sorry for her, and one must remember that she is a member of the media. Easy enough with the training to fake emotions. @:-)

Not true. It provides a pretty clear indication that this woman was never tied or cuffed to a chair, since she was not in the first video (obviously) and she never sat down in the second video. If you had been watching the other passengers during both videos they make it clear that she is the one initiating the situation and the hysterics, she is the one making a big deal out of the whole thing, and that the TSO’s and LEO’s remained calm and professional throughout.

The video’s are enough to convince all except the most rabid TSA haters that this woman lied. Fabricated the entire thing, just as the woman with the infant did several months ago. And from what another poster has said, as soon as the video’s were posted by TSA she vanished from the planet. I guess being caught in a lie by the entire country can be a bit embarrassing.

P.S. Did anyone else note that her boarding pass remained in one piece during the entire episode? Never torn in half? The lies just keep coming.

cordelli

One would have hoped that any video released would clear the air, which while it makes some of her facts questionable, the fact that there is no audio, no timeline in the video, no clue how long of a time span between the first video and the second one, and most of it is off camera.

It is also interesting that they say she enters the frame at 1:08 in the description, which is not correct. She is in it from the very beginning, putting her stuff on the belt, being walked over to the scanner, opting out, then moved off to the right where she is no longer visible while a radio call is made, then walked over at 1:08 through the lane.

Anybody know what position that woman in the white pants who shows up at 10 and a half minutes in the first video would be? She's also standing by in the entire second one just watching and talking on her phone the entire time. She comes from airside and the TSA people talk to her, so she must be somebody.

We do get to see a couple of half attempts at patdowns though, the woman in the sweatshirt who has her boobs checked, and the guy they only look at one leg.

Funny that she wasn't at this airport

My airport has more than 200 cameras just at the security checkpoint at least 10 cameras for every lane some of which are equipped with audio.

which would have probably made for much better viewing.

N965VJ

Does the TSA not have audio recording capability at checkpoints?

WChou

I have always said the WBIs are slow and the video proves it. Look at when the first guy steps in around 0:03. He finally clears about 0:44 when it looks like he is told he cleared. The next person steps in around 1:05. It takes him until 1:42 to clear the WBI. While that person is waiting to get released from the penalty box, another person steps into the machine at 1:37. She doesn't clear until 2:05. Meanwhile, the lady that went through the WTMD cleared in about 5 seconds. Then a huge lag before the next person goes in at 2:35. She clears at 3:07. The next person goes in at 3:10 and clears at 3:40 after a cursory patdown. In the meantime, two people clear the WTMD including on that needed to reenter. I am presuming the one sent back through the WTMD didn;t respect the screener "authoritah" and was chided for entering before she was told. The story remains the same. Slow WBI and everyone else streaming through the WTMD. Didn't the TSA say these machines make things faster?

TSORon

200 cameras at a single security checkpoint? 10 cameras per lane?

You own your own airport? Interesting, yet you fly commercial. Bill Gates or Warren Buffett?

I haven’t seen a video yet of a TSA checkpoint with an audio component, have you? And if you have, just how clear was the conversation you were trying to listen to?

N965VJ

Neither have I, but it could be released with the honesty of full disclosure, unless there was something to hide. The Bierfeldt case is a good example of PAX getting verbal abuse from screeners.

Tom M.

That was originally posted by:

gj83

The main point she had that these videos disputed was her stating that she was the only one going through the WBI. We see a couple people before her and many people after her. There is fairly steady traffic through the scanner and they were mostly ugly people so the notion that she got pulled aside due to her looks doesn't hold water.