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Another first-hand account of the new patdowns...

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Old Nov 5, 10, 9:19 pm
  #76
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post
What makes you believe that such things are happening at TSA checkpoints there J?
Dozens of credible media reports, Ron. All of which come from sources far more trustworthy than, say, someone who claims to be more American than other people because he fondles children's genitals as part of his job, or thinks it's illegal to travel with $10,000 cash.
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Old Nov 5, 10, 9:24 pm
  #77
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Originally Posted by Tom M. View Post
A quick searched revealed TSO agents in Orlando and Boston have been arrested on sex charges.
I believe there was another in the southern California area this year also.
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Old Nov 6, 10, 6:45 am
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Originally Posted by deldel View Post
I thought once the screening process started passengers did not have the option of walking away before screening is completed?
That's not a precise statement of the law. The case on point was where somebody verbally said they didn't want further screening, physically cooperated with the screening, some drugs were found, and the defendent sought to have the evidence excluded on the grounds that he declined the consent for the second search. The court disagreed on the grounds that consent can't be withdrawn and gave the reasons discussed here.

That does not address the question of what happens if somebody doesn't physically cooperate with the rest of the search (e.g., by physically leaving). There has been no case that addresses this issue and the legal standard that would be necessary for the person to be detained and further searched is far from clear.

My understanding, from what the TSOs in this forum have stated, is that TSA policy in that case is to call an LEO and see if sufficient cause can be found for normal types of law-enforcement stops (e.g., "Terry Stops"). However, the mere act of refusing further search can't be used to find that cause.

Unless the courts provide further guidance on this issue, I think this is probably the best approach.
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Old Nov 6, 10, 6:58 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
I believe there was another in the southern California area this year also.
An entire thread on the subject

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...offenders.html
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Old Nov 6, 10, 6:59 am
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post

You always have the option to walk away. Life is made up of choices, make the ones that you are comfortable with.
Another totally disingenuous statement by a TSO as you can't just "walk away" without consequences, i.e., a LEO being called.
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Old Nov 6, 10, 9:18 am
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post
What makes you believe that such things are happening at TSA checkpoints there J? Has it happened to you? Do you have a credible source that is telling you this? Or are you just going along with the crowd and condemning a procedure that you and the others honestly know nothing about? How… pedestrian.



You always have the option to walk away. Life is made up of choices, make the ones that you are comfortable with.
This should not even happen.
I should not be able to fly because I dont want to be pat-down be a strange male?Dont you see how wrong that sounds?That is perverted.

I can see that a TSA wouldnt care if he touches a female passenger.

But most females do.

I would see that an sexual assult. And how can that even be legal.

Originally Posted by doober View Post
Another totally disingenuous statement by a TSO as you can't just "walk away" without consequences, i.e., a LEO being called.
I would just "love" to see a female saying no to a male TSA. And that he would call the police.

How is he going to explain this to the police.

"This female passenger is giving me a hard time. She will not let me touching her brests and fondle her genitals. I have to do it. But she will not let me".

That would be a very strange conversation. Wonder how the outcome would be.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 9, 10 at 2:58 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Nov 6, 10, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by tsadude1 View Post
Wow, you folks are really gullible. When have you ever seen a male TSO pat down a female pax? This jerk stated that he witnessed a male TSO touch the private parts of a female child. He didnt report it right then? Would any of you honestly not report this if you witnessed it and especially if you are some hot shot reporter such as this guy. Wake up.
At least one poster, who claims to be a TSO, states that at small airports, there is no TSA requirement that there are both male and female screeners on duty.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15083260-post63.html

Of course, he or she might be lying...

Morever, the TSA documents cited above nowhere state that TSA absolutely bars its personnel from searching a person of the opposite gender or observing a private search of a person of the opposite gender. The phrase "goes to great lengths" is meaningless - there is no protection from it meaning "unless a supervisor likes DD-blonds".

Male screeners have certainly attempted to pressure women to allow them to touch them - this has happened to me. I assume they succeed sometimes.

In BOS, a male screener told me there was a 'very long wait' for a female screener and it 'would be better' to let him do it.

I told him I would wait and that he should put my things where I could see them. He asked me which belt they were on. I was stupid and pointed. He then moved to stand so that I couldn't see the belt at all and kept repeating that it 'would be better' to let him screen me.

I told him that if he got one inch closer, I would scream my head off...he backed down and eventually a female came.

I tried to file a complaint, but never got any response.

A (rather small-busted) friend told me that a male TSA at BOS tried to frisk her, shouting that she couldn't possibly be female. No idea whether it was the same guy or whether she filed a complaint.

Last edited by neko; Nov 6, 10 at 10:04 am
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Old Nov 6, 10, 9:59 am
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Originally Posted by neko View Post
At least one poster, who claims to be a TSO, states that at small airports, there is no TSA requirement that there are both male and female screeners on duty.
In addition another poster who I believe is a supervisor once posted about the challenges of hiring and retaining females as TSOs and admitted that there is often delays for female assist due to the lower ratio of female TSOs.
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Old Nov 6, 10, 10:47 pm
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Originally Posted by TSORon View Post
You always have the option to walk away. Life is made up of choices, make the ones that you are comfortable with.
According to your coworker, tsadude1, in a direct reply to me, that would cause a terminal breach and legal charges.

Last edited by DevilDog438; Nov 6, 10 at 10:50 pm Reason: add link and correct misspelled name
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Old Nov 7, 10, 1:48 am
  #85
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Originally Posted by neko View Post
At least one poster, who claims to be a TSO, states that at small airports, there is no TSA requirement that there are both male and female screeners on duty.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15083260-post63.html

Of course, he or she might be lying...

Morever, the TSA documents cited above nowhere state that TSA absolutely bars its personnel from searching a person of the opposite gender or observing a private search of a person of the opposite gender. The phrase "goes to great lengths" is meaningless - there is no protection from it meaning "unless a supervisor likes DD-blonds".

Male screeners have certainly attempted to pressure women to allow them to touch them - this has happened to me. I assume they succeed sometimes.

In BOS, a male screener told me there was a 'very long wait' for a female screener and it 'would be better' to let him do it.

I told him I would wait and that he should put my things where I could see them. He asked me which belt they were on. I was stupid and pointed. He then moved to stand so that I couldn't see the belt at all and kept repeating that it 'would be better' to let him screen me.

I told him that if he got one inch closer, I would scream my head off...he backed down and eventually a female came.

I tried to file a complaint, but never got any response.


A (rather small-busted) friend told me that a male TSA at BOS tried to frisk her, shouting that she couldn't possibly be female. No idea whether it was the same guy or whether she filed a complaint.
The experiences you described are definitely disturbing. However, the fact that you tried to file a complaint to stop a disturbing trend is even more concerning. This essentially gives every TSO who wishes to a free pass to fondle pax (be it males or females).

LAX
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Old Nov 7, 10, 8:23 am
  #86
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Originally Posted by LAX View Post
The experiences you described are definitely disturbing. However, the fact that you tried to file a complaint to stop a disturbing trend is even more concerning. This essentially gives every TSO who wishes to a free pass to fondle pax (be it males or females).

LAX
Not to quibble but I think the words your looking for are Sexually Assault.
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Old Nov 7, 10, 8:44 am
  #87
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Originally Posted by LAX View Post
The experiences you described are definitely disturbing. However, the fact that you tried to file a complaint to stop a disturbing trend is even more concerning. This essentially gives every TSO who wishes to a free pass to fondle pax (be it males or females).

LAX
Depends with which agency said complaint was filed. If it was with the TSA, it is certainly not a surprise that no response was forthcoming.

Any complaints need to be filed with law enforcement.
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Old Nov 7, 10, 1:52 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Not to quibble but I think the words your looking for are Sexually Assault.
You are correct.
For a legal definition see post #547 on this page: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...merged-37.html.
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Old Nov 7, 10, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by tsadude1 View Post
Wow, you folks are really gullible. When have you ever seen a male TSO pat down a female pax?
Couple of years ago in Terminal B, AA side, @ BOS. Male screener, probably in his 50's, 'screening' a couple of girls who looked to be in their teens. He had one girl in the position (arms out, legs spread) & was running his hand, slowly, down the fly of her jeans as I walked out the exit door.

Considering this was before the 'enhanced' pat downs became legal, I can just imagine what this pervert is doing now w/the full blessing of the TSA
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Old Nov 7, 10, 4:52 pm
  #90
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Originally Posted by txrus View Post
Couple of years ago in Terminal B, AA side, @ BOS. Male screener, probably in his 50's, 'screening' a couple of girls who looked to be in their teens. He had one girl in the position (arms out, legs spread) & was running his hand, slowly, down the fly of her jeans as I walked out the exit door.

Considering this was before the 'enhanced' pat downs became legal, I can just imagine what this pervert is doing now w/the full blessing of the TSA
Of course our TSA members will clearly state you did not see what you saw.

All of the reports of abusive screenings being reported are just made up.
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