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Opt-out minors and enhanced patdowns -- looking for facts

Opt-out minors and enhanced patdowns -- looking for facts

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Old Oct 27, 10, 1:27 pm
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Opt-out minors and enhanced patdowns -- looking for facts

Sorry if this has been answered in another thread, but...

Can anybody tell us whether the enhanced patdown is DEFINITELY being performed on minors whose parents opt them out?

Spent an inordinate amount of time reading through literally thousands of NoS-related posts. Found lots of FTers giving advice and/or discussing how they would handle it IF they were faced with a choice between radiation and patdown, but saw nothing stating definitively that TSA is or is not, for a fact, performing the enhanced patdowns on minors. [again, no desire to be redundant, so apologies if we simply missed the posts]

We have determined that we may not be able to avoid making this choice during some upcoming domestic flights with one of our 15-year-old daughters. Certainly, avoiding exposure to radiation (not to mention the resultant porn) is an extraordinarily high priority for us. However, the patdown is simply not an option if it will be "enhanced" (i.e., involving her chest, butt or anywhere too close to the groin region).

Seeking FTers' recent real-life personal experiences and/or first-hand observations.

Thanks!
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Old Oct 27, 10, 1:55 pm
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Not personal experiece. On the TSA blog it was stated by the TSA Blogger Bob burns that if a parent Opts Out a minor that they will get the pat down.

The "Enhanced Pat Down" will be invasive.

So you have a choice, have your children viewed naked or felt up by TSA perverts.

Say Thanks to DHS/TSA.

John Pistole is head of TSA now, why don't you send him your thanks.
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Old Oct 27, 10, 1:56 pm
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Originally Posted by mr&mrs View Post
Can anybody tell us whether the enhanced patdown is DEFINITELY being performed on minors whose parents opt them out?
No, nobody can tell you the answer to that: there's just too much confusion. The statement was made by many TSOs here that the "opt-out" pat-down and the "enhanced" pat-down are not the same, but others have claimed the opposite and things may change again on Friday, so nobody can be sure.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Not personal experiece. On the TSA blog it was stated by the TSA Blogger Bob burns that if a parent Opts Out a minor that they will get the pat down.
A pat-down. There are many more than just one. And there's a great deal of confusion of which one occurs when.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 5, 10 at 7:07 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Oct 27, 10, 1:59 pm
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I have the same questions.

I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.

I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
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Old Oct 27, 10, 2:03 pm
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Originally Posted by lostinthewash View Post
I have the same questions.

I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.

I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
Read through the testimonials on www.thousandsstandingaround.com. Unfortunately teens are not exempt from being molested by TSA.

Last edited by MikeMpls; Oct 27, 10 at 2:17 pm
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Old Oct 27, 10, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls View Post
Read through the testimonials on www.thousandsstandaround.com. Unfortunately teens are not exempt from being molested by TSA.
Link doesn't work

~~

But this one does:

http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/
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Old Oct 27, 10, 2:10 pm
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A pat-down. There are many more than just one. And there's a great deal of confusion of which one occurs when.
Yes, that's why a description of the type of patdown was provided in the OP...

FWIW, we've already decided what we'll do if we can't avoid the NoS (a decision reached with daughter's input).

Nevertheless, we'd still very much like to hear about the experiences and observations of FTers who opted out their kids, or witnessed a minor opt-out first-hand.

Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Oct 27, 10 at 2:11 pm Reason: redundancy
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Old Oct 27, 10, 2:11 pm
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Originally Posted by RichardKenner View Post
A pat-down. There are many more than just one. And there's a great deal of confusion of which one occurs when.
I think the situation is more clear than you suggest.

Two of our FT members employed by TSA have told us that there will only be two pat downs starting with the new change. The Enhanced Pat Down which will use the front of the hand on certain areas of the body and a new as yet undefined pat down that will be used in limited situations and be more invasive that the Enhanced Pat Down.

News media have confirmed these reports in the last couple of days.

The comment by Blogger Bob about children not being exempted was made some time ago and I am not going back to look for that one statement.
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Old Oct 27, 10, 2:59 pm
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In July, I was flying with my 5 year old granddaughter and her mother opted her out of the NOS at El Paso airport. They did the "normal" patdown. They ETDed her hands and it came back positive. She had just used the restroom, so it was more than likely the soap. There were 4 or 5 of them standing around trying to figure out what to do. They asked my daughter for my granddaughters belongings and my daughter said "Well, here is her Happy Meal and crayons". What a fricking joke! Then the 3 striper called someone and was totally at a loss as to what to do. He finally said to just go. The whole thing took about 30 minutes.
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Old Oct 27, 10, 3:08 pm
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As a parent, I have serious concerns that such a search would be done on a 17 year old minor. The searches cross the line, she was molested for no reason.
I suggest you cancel your trip and write letters to your congresscritters and the Airline protesting this matter.

Vote with your checkbook!

I won't let my kids go through this. My family has quit flying until some reasonableness is restored to Amerika.
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Old Oct 27, 10, 3:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
John Pistole is head of TSA now, why don't you send him your thanks?
Too bad it would be considered a terrorist act to deliver that thanks by Sharpie-written brick through his plate-glass window...
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Old Oct 27, 10, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by n4zhg View Post
Too bad it would be considered a terrorist act to deliver that thanks by Sharpie-written brick through his plate-glass window...
I would never suggest going outside of the law.

We have TSA doing that for us and look what it gets.
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Old Oct 27, 10, 10:31 pm
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A Pathetic thread on Disney (external) support board:
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html

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Old Oct 28, 10, 7:14 am
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Originally Posted by Wimpie View Post
A Pathetic thread on Disney (external) support board:
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html

I wonder how the ignorant parents on that forum would feel about this guy running the nude-o-scope?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...s#CommentsArea
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Old Oct 29, 10, 1:46 pm
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Travelling to US from Canada

Just off the phone with CATSA

Underage minors are never exempt from random selection.
Should they be selected, an underage minor can choose to opt-out of the NoS
Should said minor opt-out, they will be subjected to the same pat down and process as any adult would be
Adults are permitted to accompany their minor children at all times

ps - I was told that as part of the enhanced process, CATSA has upped the "random selection" to 50%. So, you now have a 50/50 chance of random NoS or opt-out groping.
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