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IT and data storage of WBI machines
As I was writing about WBI machines this morning it occurred to me that there is a lack of understanding around the data aspects of whole body imaging. I'm not an IT guy, but know a lot of you work in that field. Would you help us all understand? Here's my line of thinking:
* We already know TSA was lying about the machines not being able to store or send data * You can't create an image without some sort of file being created, right? Even when I open a pdf email attachment there is a file created (Temporary Internet Files for Windows users). When Comrade Janet talks about "erasing" the image - you can't erase something that doesn't exist. So a file IS created. How is it being erased? Just trashed/recycled or actually over-written? Which leads to the following questions: * What is the storage capability on these machines? Is it so small that every new image over-writes that last one? Or enough to hold a day's, week's or month's worth of images? * Who has access and control over retrieving these images? Would love a technical perspective on this. |
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
As I was writing about WBI machines this morning it occurred to me that there is a lack of understanding around the data aspects of whole body imaging. I'm not an IT guy, but know a lot of you work in that field. Would you help us all understand? Here's my line of thinking:
* We already know TSA was lying about the machines not being able to store or send data * You can't create an image without some sort of file being created, right? Even when I open a pdf email attachment there is a file created (Temporary Internet Files for Windows users). When Comrade Janet talks about "erasing" the image - you can't erase something that doesn't exist. So a file IS created. How is it being erased? Just trashed/recycled or actually over-written? Which leads to the following questions: * What is the storage capability on these machines? Is it so small that every new image over-writes that last one? Or enough to hold a day's, week's or month's worth of images? * Who has access and control over retrieving these images? Would love a technical perspective on this. I would not accept anything put out by TSA as truth. |
Originally Posted by N965VJ
(Post 14422212)
Originally Posted by TSA Bob
(Post 14421957)
The storing and exporting of images only takes place in a laboratory or testing environment while in "test mode." Machines in the airports will not be placed in test mode and there is nobody at the airports who have the capability of placing it in that mode. This mode is not even accessible by the people who perform maintenance on the machines.
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Would the TSA be stupid enough to install a system that could detect criminal activity, i.e. concealed explosives or weapons, and not provide a means to save the evidence obtained that led to the detaining for suspicion of criminal activity? They would actually destroy the evidence of probable cause? They would initiate an invasive body search with photographic evidence that is not capable of being retained?
Yes, I think they may be this stupid, but in this case I can not believe they were. It is incredulous to suggest that the data is not capable of being archived in specific situations and on demand. |
Has anyone did a FOIA on any of the NOS`s??
Maybe get the technical stats on it? |
I'll cover this point by point.
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
As I was writing about WBI machines this morning it occurred to me that there is a lack of understanding around the data aspects of whole body imaging. I'm not an IT guy, but know a lot of you work in that field. Would you help us all understand? Here's my line of thinking:
* We already know TSA was lying about the machines not being able to store or send data * You can't create an image without some sort of file being created, right? Even when I open a pdf email attachment there is a file created (Temporary Internet Files for Windows users). When Comrade Janet talks about "erasing" the image - you can't erase something that doesn't exist. So a file IS created. How is it being erased? Just trashed/recycled or actually over-written?
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
Which leads to the following questions:
* What is the storage capability on these machines? Is it so small that every new image over-writes that last one? Or enough to hold a day's, week's or month's worth of images?
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
* Who has access and control over retrieving these images?
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
Would love a technical perspective on this.
The CPU would prolly be higher end, I wouldn't want Windows as the OS, 4gb of RAM minimum. But then again, I don't want them at all. :) I do Level II/III Desktop support, and have spec'ed out systems for all sorts of things...feel free to post more questions. :) |
Big thanks to mikemay for a great technical perspective.
And that's pretty much exactly what I thought it would be: files are created, probably stored (whether or not 'deleted') and no one knows who has access to these images or what privacy safeguards (if any) are. Utterly disgusting. It's nothing but TSA taking a piss on the idea of privacy and liberties. They are dangerously close to crossing a red line, if they haven't already. |
It would all depend on how the system is set up. It could be set to delete the image, then destroy it by overwriting it's data with nonsense data, making it impossible to recover. That's real easy to build into the machines.
It would make sense that the image was deleted every time somebody was given the clear signal, or the last five minutes or whatever, much like many police cars cameras, while always on, only store the last 90 seconds to when the flashing lights come on or they activate the camera, saving only the previous 90 seconds and everything going forward from that point. So the technology is available to do those things but it's just a question of is it being implemented or not. I would believe not, if you want to prosecute somebody, you will need to match the image of them going through the checkpoint to the scanned image. There's gonna be some xplainign to do the first time a case goes to court and they pull up all the images they say they don't have. |
Originally Posted by cordelli
(Post 15013347)
There's gonna be some xplainign to do the first time a case goes to court and they pull up all the images they say they don't have.
The more I think about it, it will probably come up in a drug/contraband case, since TSA loves mission creep so much. Let's hope the public catches on and they have a LOT of explaining to do. |
EPIC has this document that discusses specifications of WBI.
http://www.ectnews.com/shared/storye..._FOIA_Memo.pdf |
Let me give you my perspective as an engineer. And this is an engineering question, not an IT question. Note that this is how I would design it, not knowing the actual requirements that TSA set.
Originally Posted by Sydneysider
(Post 15011915)
* We already know TSA was lying about the machines not being able to store or send data
* You can't create an image without some sort of file being created, right? Even when I open a pdf email attachment there is a file created (Temporary Internet Files for Windows users). When Comrade Janet talks about "erasing" the image - you can't erase something that doesn't exist. So a file IS created. How is it being erased? Just trashed/recycled or actually over-written? You assume however that it is based on a modern PC operating system like Windows or Linux. This isn't necessarily the case. Many devices like this are based on "embedded" operating systems like VXWorks or QNX. Regardless of OS choice, writing to disk is inefficient. Windows only does that because it has to share the file between applications. Most likely on these devices, the image is only stored in volatile memory - RAM. Anything in RAM doesn't stick around. Once it's deleted, it's gone. I would be VERY surprised if the machines, as delivered to TSA, store the images to disk. Even if it does run Windows, it's probably one application that does all of the processing. Again, no need to store to disk. * What is the storage capability on these machines? Is it so small that every new image over-writes that last one? Or enough to hold a day's, week's or month's worth of images? * Who has access and control over retrieving these images? Like I said, I'm assuming that the TSA specified in their requirements that the images would not be stored (as they state) and that the engineers at the manufacturers like L3 are halfway competent. |
Originally Posted by realjd
(Post 15013708)
Most likely on these devices, the image is only stored in volatile memory - RAM. Anything in RAM doesn't stick around. Once it's deleted, it's gone. I would be VERY surprised if the machines, as delivered to TSA, store the images to disk. Even if it does run Windows, it's probably one application that does all of the processing. Again, no need to store to disk.
Even RAM has its drawbacks - depending on the OS RAM can be written to disk. Which isn't as easy to extract contents from than a plan filesystem, but it's still an attack vector. |
The document linked above says it's an XP9(e) machine with USB ports. Access is controlled by user level, with a super user (Level Z) being able to access way more than they are telling the public, including the ability to disable the privacy filters.
When in test mode, they can store and transmit images per their specs. The specifications also state they will have a high capacity read / write drive, and ethernet ports. The official answer is all that stuff will be disabled before installation, but of course, why have it in the first place then? |
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails
(Post 15012062)
Would the TSA be stupid enough to install a system that could detect criminal activity, i.e. concealed explosives or weapons, and not provide a means to save the evidence obtained that led to the detaining for suspicion of criminal activity? They would actually destroy the evidence of probable cause? They would initiate an invasive body search with photographic evidence that is not capable of being retained?
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 15015570)
No need for probable cause as this is an administrative search, so no need to store images for use as evidence later. Have you ever heard of x-ray monitor images being stored and used later in a trial?
I know the courts have found that an administrative search is acceptable. They did that back in 1967 and it applied to searches of buildings for code violations and such. I also know that after 9/11 the TSA got permission for increased administrative searches of stuff going on the aircraft. But, I could not find a court decision or legislative action that extended the administrative search to ones body. I readily admit I am not a legal expert, but I try to research these matters. Please inform me. |
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