NYT: Are Scanners Worth the Risk?
Sep 8, 2010, 6:49 am
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,402
NYT: Are Scanners Worth the Risk?
Are Scanners Worth the Risk?
By SUSAN STELLIN
Published: September 7, 2010
THE next time you go through security at the airport, you might be told to empty your pockets, put your hands over your head and stand still while an X-ray machine looks for anything hidden under your clothing.
...
The main concerns are how much radiation the scanners give off (the manufacturers say the amount is very low), whether the scanners might malfunction and emit more radiation than they are supposed to, and what the health effects may be for travelers. Since there is no precedent for routinely screening so many people with X-rays — other than in prisons — there are a lot of unknowns.
Another issue is that the devices haven’t been thoroughly tested. The T.S.A. claims that the machines have been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health, the Commerce Department’s National Institute for Standards and Technology and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. But when I called these organizations to ask about their evaluations, I learned that they basically tested only one thing — whether the amount of radiation emitted meets guidelines established by the American National Standards Institute, a membership organization of companies and government agencies.
But guess who was on the committee that developed the guidelines for the X-ray scanners? Representatives from the companies that make the machines and the Department of Homeland Security, among others. In other words, the machines passed a test developed, in part, by the companies that manufacture them and the government agency that wants to use them.
...
“It definitely didn’t feel optional at all,” said Drew Hjelm, an Army veteran who recently encountered the X-ray machine at O’Hare Airport in Chicago. After asking to go through the metal detector, being turned down and even speaking with a supervisor, he was given other choices.
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
...
Published: September 7, 2010
THE next time you go through security at the airport, you might be told to empty your pockets, put your hands over your head and stand still while an X-ray machine looks for anything hidden under your clothing.
...
The main concerns are how much radiation the scanners give off (the manufacturers say the amount is very low), whether the scanners might malfunction and emit more radiation than they are supposed to, and what the health effects may be for travelers. Since there is no precedent for routinely screening so many people with X-rays — other than in prisons — there are a lot of unknowns.
Another issue is that the devices haven’t been thoroughly tested. The T.S.A. claims that the machines have been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health, the Commerce Department’s National Institute for Standards and Technology and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. But when I called these organizations to ask about their evaluations, I learned that they basically tested only one thing — whether the amount of radiation emitted meets guidelines established by the American National Standards Institute, a membership organization of companies and government agencies.
But guess who was on the committee that developed the guidelines for the X-ray scanners? Representatives from the companies that make the machines and the Department of Homeland Security, among others. In other words, the machines passed a test developed, in part, by the companies that manufacture them and the government agency that wants to use them.
...
“It definitely didn’t feel optional at all,” said Drew Hjelm, an Army veteran who recently encountered the X-ray machine at O’Hare Airport in Chicago. After asking to go through the metal detector, being turned down and even speaking with a supervisor, he was given other choices.
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
...
Last edited by Xyzzy; Sep 8, 2010 at 6:54 am
Sep 8, 2010, 7:49 am
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by The New York Times
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
It almost sounds like what the UK is threatening to do to passengers who refuse to submit to these obsolete pieces of junk that do who knows what if not properly calibrated and controlled.
Given the federal government has trouble making sure the toilets for White House staff don't overflow, so who is to say the "professional" TSA won't have trouble making sure the genital-revealing scanners are never overflowing with radiation"juice"?
Sep 8, 2010, 7:52 am
#3
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
It definitely didn’t feel optional at all,” said Drew Hjelm, an Army veteran who recently encountered the X-ray machine at O’Hare Airport in Chicago. After asking to go through the metal detector, being turned down and even speaking with a supervisor, he was given other choices.
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
)
Sep 8, 2010, 8:01 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
This is perhaps the most well-researched article on this subject. The TSA spokesholes could only muster lame responses. Actually, I'm surprised they commented at all.
The other shoe which needs to fall is to put an end to the groping-style friskings which are now routine. This will be a harder nut to crack because there are no dollars involved as there is with the machines. Playing up and socializing the sexual assault and child molestation themes might work.
The TSA, I believe, has three options:
1. Ignore the criticism and press on;
2. Trot out talking heads to convince the public that all of this is for their own good. A spokeshole tried, but they need to do a full media blitz;
3. Announce that the "threat" has passed and that the machines or friskings will now only be used for secondary screenings.
Oh yeah -- also arm the screeners.
The other shoe which needs to fall is to put an end to the groping-style friskings which are now routine. This will be a harder nut to crack because there are no dollars involved as there is with the machines. Playing up and socializing the sexual assault and child molestation themes might work.
The TSA, I believe, has three options:
1. Ignore the criticism and press on;
2. Trot out talking heads to convince the public that all of this is for their own good. A spokeshole tried, but they need to do a full media blitz;
3. Announce that the "threat" has passed and that the machines or friskings will now only be used for secondary screenings.
Oh yeah -- also arm the screeners.
Sep 8, 2010, 8:11 am
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
They aren't even worth the cost.
Beside the cost of acquiring the machines and related items to implement the technology and related processes, there is the additional cost of maintaining the equipment (read: servicing the equipment and its connections); the additional labor costs to operate them and deal with more, more intimate physical searches; and also -- what many have ignored -- the costs of airports having to build/build-outs to meet TSA demands for space for these machines.
That last aspect is going to require the airports to borrow money to finance the building/build-out demands of the TSA.
It's also too bad the NYT didn't mention the "tampon paradox".
Beside the cost of acquiring the machines and related items to implement the technology and related processes, there is the additional cost of maintaining the equipment (read: servicing the equipment and its connections); the additional labor costs to operate them and deal with more, more intimate physical searches; and also -- what many have ignored -- the costs of airports having to build/build-outs to meet TSA demands for space for these machines.
That last aspect is going to require the airports to borrow money to finance the building/build-out demands of the TSA.
It's also too bad the NYT didn't mention the "tampon paradox".
Sep 8, 2010, 8:17 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,037
“It definitely didn’t feel optional at all,” said Drew Hjelm, an Army veteran who recently encountered the X-ray machine at O’Hare Airport in Chicago. After asking to go through the metal detector, being turned down and even speaking with a supervisor, he was given other choices.
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
“The officer said, either you go through the body scanner or you leave the airport or we’re going to call the police and they’re going to come and arrest you,” Mr. Hjelm said. “After I went through the body scanner, they still patted my pants down.”
Winning the hearts and minds of the traveling public.
Sep 8, 2010, 8:27 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,603
“This is all done to keep the traveling public safe,” said Nicholas Kimball, a T.S.A. spokesman.
Sep 8, 2010, 8:32 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
This is perhaps the most well-researched article on this subject. The TSA spokesholes could only muster lame responses. Actually, I'm surprised they commented at all.
The other shoe which needs to fall is to put an end to the groping-style friskings which are now routine. This will be a harder nut to crack because there are no dollars involved as there is with the machines. Playing up and socializing the sexual assault and child molestation themes might work.
The TSA, I believe, has three options:
1. Ignore the criticism and press on;
2. Trot out talking heads to convince the public that all of this is for their own good. A spokeshole tried, but they need to do a full media blitz;
3. Announce that the "threat" has passed and that the machines or friskings will now only be used for secondary screenings.
Oh yeah -- also arm the screeners.
The other shoe which needs to fall is to put an end to the groping-style friskings which are now routine. This will be a harder nut to crack because there are no dollars involved as there is with the machines. Playing up and socializing the sexual assault and child molestation themes might work.
The TSA, I believe, has three options:
1. Ignore the criticism and press on;
2. Trot out talking heads to convince the public that all of this is for their own good. A spokeshole tried, but they need to do a full media blitz;
3. Announce that the "threat" has passed and that the machines or friskings will now only be used for secondary screenings.
Oh yeah -- also arm the screeners.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...e-privacy.html
Sep 8, 2010, 8:59 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,037
Sep 8, 2010, 9:07 am
#12
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 93
Perhaps, but I'm just making my record in case I have to file a complaint, contact my elected officials, have them call the FSD or screening manager, etc.
If they're going to be willfully ignorant and abusive, I want to be able to document that it wasn't mere incompetence or ignorance.
If they're going to be willfully ignorant and abusive, I want to be able to document that it wasn't mere incompetence or ignorance.
Sep 8, 2010, 9:45 am
#13
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
Has this avatar piece been noticed here?
Even if the "new software" is installed, my concerns about whole procedure, including the potential for radiation damage, remain intact. I thought the NYT piece provided a very good summary of the situation.
Even if the "new software" is installed, my concerns about whole procedure, including the potential for radiation damage, remain intact. I thought the NYT piece provided a very good summary of the situation.
Sep 8, 2010, 9:53 am
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,037
The Fark.com comments on the article.
Because, you know, it's only people who are on FT who don't like the scanner.
Because, you know, it's only people who are on FT who don't like the scanner.
Sep 8, 2010, 9:57 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,402
