Tantric TSA: The art of foreplay
Sep 10, 2010, 2:40 pm
#61
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
...I read in an article in a newspaper (I forget which newspaper and who said it) regarding airline security and he said, "if you are not offended (going through security), then you were not thoroughly searched."
I hate to admit it but it's true.
I'm not sure if a nude-o-scope would have caught the underwear bomber. And determined terrorists will take advantage of the situation and put the bomb in a place "where the sun don't shine."
I think that 99.99999% of the people, even if given a gun onboard a plane, would not hijack a plane.. but then we have that 0.00001% who would.
David
I hate to admit it but it's true.
I'm not sure if a nude-o-scope would have caught the underwear bomber. And determined terrorists will take advantage of the situation and put the bomb in a place "where the sun don't shine."
I think that 99.99999% of the people, even if given a gun onboard a plane, would not hijack a plane.. but then we have that 0.00001% who would.
David
Well, then, maybe, the government should focus on finding those 0.00001% - and leave us, the rest, alone?
And if they're unable to determine who's who - then we probably need more experienced people in those positions?
Sep 10, 2010, 3:09 pm
#62
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When you arrive at the airport in Israel, you are given three checks. The first one is the most important -- you do not go to step # 2 until you have been interviewed and have convinced Security that you are not a terrorist.
The second step is a scanning of your checked baggage. It is done in your presence and if there is anything inside of it which looks suspicious, YOU open your bag in front of Security and show them what is inside. This is actually a rare event -- I have only had to open my bag one time.
Step # 3 is the TSA type inspection of you and your hand luggage. However, it is "TSA-light". You don't have to take off your shoes and Israel doesn't care at all how many bottles of liquid you have with you. I have never spent more than three minutes from the moment I got into the line until I was finished.
Israel can afford to go easy on steps 2 & 3 because of that initial interview. If a weapon does slip by, it is a weapon in the hands of someone Security is certain has no bad intentions.
The reason that the US does not do this is that recognizing reality is often not "politically correct".
One (and yes, only one) of the factors which determine whether more questions need to be asked is the nationality and/or religion of the passenger.
Israel recognizes, for example, that the odds are much greater that a Palestinian Muslim will attempt to hijack the plane than an Israeli Jew. Hence, that Palestinian Muslim is certain to be asked quite a few more questions than most passengers. That does not mean that the Israeli Jew is automatically exempted --he is not. He, too, will be asked some questions and if anything in his answers, or his behavior, seems strange than he will be questioned even more.
In the heavy majority of cases, it never goes beyond the questioning stage. If that is not enough to satisfy Security, then the passenger may be subjected to a body search (I doubt that it reaches this stage in more than 1 out of 1000 cases, even among Muslims).
In some extremely rare instances, Security will find itself in a position where it does not have enough proof to arrest someone as a terrorist, or even keep him off of the plane, but it is very concerned about him.
In these cases, he will be escorted to the plane and an armed guard will be with him throughout the flight. This is exactly what happened when shoe bomber Richard Reid decided to fly El Al.
Of course, if this were tried in the US, or most European countries, the very same people who are on TS&S screaming about "wand rapes" would be throwing even bigger temper tantrums.
Sep 10, 2010, 3:18 pm
#63
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: AA, UA, DL,
Posts: 588
Hello,
I agree with you completely -- the U.S. should model its airport security after Israel.
Also, what I liked about Israeli security is they were polite!
TSA workers are now nice and they are improving... but not as nice and polite as Israeli TSA.
But heaven help you if you get on the wrong side of Israeli TSA. After my bags were scanned, I had to open each of my two suitcases because they wanted to see "a bowl in this suitcase" and "a book in that suitcase.' They knew *exactly* what they wanted to inspect. This poor retired American had his suitcase inspected down to its lining and they were inspecting that as well. Every article of clothing was thoroughly examined. He was befuddled as to how he got picked.
Regarding targetting... I think a month ago, Donna Shalali (the spelling is wrong), former cabinet secretary (I forgot the department for which she was the Secretary) under Clinton was given the fourth degree at TLV because she was of Lebanese ancestry.
David
I agree with you completely -- the U.S. should model its airport security after Israel.
Also, what I liked about Israeli security is they were polite!
TSA workers are now nice and they are improving... but not as nice and polite as Israeli TSA.
But heaven help you if you get on the wrong side of Israeli TSA. After my bags were scanned, I had to open each of my two suitcases because they wanted to see "a bowl in this suitcase" and "a book in that suitcase.' They knew *exactly* what they wanted to inspect. This poor retired American had his suitcase inspected down to its lining and they were inspecting that as well. Every article of clothing was thoroughly examined. He was befuddled as to how he got picked.
Regarding targetting... I think a month ago, Donna Shalali (the spelling is wrong), former cabinet secretary (I forgot the department for which she was the Secretary) under Clinton was given the fourth degree at TLV because she was of Lebanese ancestry.
David
Sep 10, 2010, 3:24 pm
#64
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
I have repeatedly posted here that the US should go with the Israeli concept of looking for terrorists, not for weapons.
When you arrive at the airport in Israel, you are given three checks. The first one is the most important -- you do not go to step # 2 until you have been interviewed and have convinced Security that you are not a terrorist.
The second step is a scanning of your checked baggage. It is done in your presence and if there is anything inside of it which looks suspicious, YOU open your bag in front of Security and show them what is inside. This is actually a rare event -- I have only had to open my bag one time.
Step # 3 is the TSA type inspection of you and your hand luggage. However, it is "TSA-light". You don't have to take off your shoes and Israel doesn't care at all how many bottles of liquid you have with you. I have never spent more than three minutes from the moment I got into the line until I was finished.
Israel can afford to go easy on steps 2 & 3 because of that initial interview. If a weapon does slip by, it is a weapon in the hands of someone Security is certain has no bad intentions.
The reason that the US does not do this is that recognizing reality is often not "politically correct".
One (and yes, only one) of the factors which determine whether more questions need to be asked is the nationality and/or religion of the passenger.
Israel recognizes, for example, that the odds are much greater that a Palestinian Muslim will attempt to hijack the plane than an Israeli Jew. Hence, that Palestinian Muslim is certain to be asked quite a few more questions than most passengers. That does not mean that the Israeli Jew is automatically exempted --he is not. He, too, will be asked some questions and if anything in his answers, or his behavior, seems strange than he will be questioned even more.
In the heavy majority of cases, it never goes beyond the questioning stage. If that is not enough to satisfy Security, then the passenger may be subjected to a body search (I doubt that it reaches this stage in more than 1 out of 1000 cases, even among Muslims).
In some extremely rare instances, Security will find itself in a position where it does not have enough proof to arrest someone as a terrorist, or even keep him off of the plane, but it is very concerned about him.
In these cases, he will be escorted to the plane and an armed guard will be with him throughout the flight. This is exactly what happened when shoe bomber Richard Reid decided to fly El Al.
Of course, if this were tried in the US, or most European countries, the very same people who are on TS&S screaming about "wand rapes" would be throwing even bigger temper tantrums.
When you arrive at the airport in Israel, you are given three checks. The first one is the most important -- you do not go to step # 2 until you have been interviewed and have convinced Security that you are not a terrorist.
The second step is a scanning of your checked baggage. It is done in your presence and if there is anything inside of it which looks suspicious, YOU open your bag in front of Security and show them what is inside. This is actually a rare event -- I have only had to open my bag one time.
Step # 3 is the TSA type inspection of you and your hand luggage. However, it is "TSA-light". You don't have to take off your shoes and Israel doesn't care at all how many bottles of liquid you have with you. I have never spent more than three minutes from the moment I got into the line until I was finished.
Israel can afford to go easy on steps 2 & 3 because of that initial interview. If a weapon does slip by, it is a weapon in the hands of someone Security is certain has no bad intentions.
The reason that the US does not do this is that recognizing reality is often not "politically correct".
One (and yes, only one) of the factors which determine whether more questions need to be asked is the nationality and/or religion of the passenger.
Israel recognizes, for example, that the odds are much greater that a Palestinian Muslim will attempt to hijack the plane than an Israeli Jew. Hence, that Palestinian Muslim is certain to be asked quite a few more questions than most passengers. That does not mean that the Israeli Jew is automatically exempted --he is not. He, too, will be asked some questions and if anything in his answers, or his behavior, seems strange than he will be questioned even more.
In the heavy majority of cases, it never goes beyond the questioning stage. If that is not enough to satisfy Security, then the passenger may be subjected to a body search (I doubt that it reaches this stage in more than 1 out of 1000 cases, even among Muslims).
In some extremely rare instances, Security will find itself in a position where it does not have enough proof to arrest someone as a terrorist, or even keep him off of the plane, but it is very concerned about him.
In these cases, he will be escorted to the plane and an armed guard will be with him throughout the flight. This is exactly what happened when shoe bomber Richard Reid decided to fly El Al.
Of course, if this were tried in the US, or most European countries, the very same people who are on TS&S screaming about "wand rapes" would be throwing even bigger temper tantrums.
The Israeli model works in Israel, because they have 3 major airports to staff, and they can focus on their inherent threats more closely. Face it, based on your comment (and pretty much general knowledge) one of the major threats to Israel is Palestinian Muslims (at least statistically speaking). Here, our threat base would not allow any type of focus that narrow, our country is simply too diverse in it's population make up. Focusing on say... people of Middle Eastern descent, would be counterproductive simply because of the large contingent of folks here that are of Middle Eastern descent (not to mention the mixing in of names based on heritage, conversion to Islam, or any other thousand reasons - of people that are caucasian, african american, asian, european - you get the idea).
I like the idea of using some of Israels system, but I think it is a hard sell here.
P.S. you are right about some folks raising Cain here. It would be a fairly large brouhaha and it wouldn't be pretty.
Sep 10, 2010, 3:37 pm
#65
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Really.
And he had no reason to believe you didn't.
Correct. Otherwise you might have been unable to serve.
It was a physical examination, not a search.
The doctor who grabbed my naked nuts had no reason to believe that I had a hernia.
However, he was making certain that I didn't.
It was a physical examination, not a search.
Sep 11, 2010, 6:38 am
#66
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Yet another country that does not believe in the myth of airborne liquid explosives. Maybe someday the TSA will come to it's senses, but I'm not holding my breath
Sep 11, 2010, 7:04 am
#67
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 97
Osama Bin Ladn played the US like a violin. Having left with no intention of ever moving back, I can afford to laugh myself silly as well, and sometimes do, except on those unfortunate occasions when my work brings me back to the Paranoid Hysterical States of America, the country that has experienced the most pain, sorrow, and tragedy, except for almost every other country.
Sep 12, 2010, 9:50 pm
#68
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Posts: 1,777
Sep 13, 2010, 5:38 am
#69
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Considering their experience of being on the receiving end of home-made bombs, I'd think that if Israeli security isn't worried about BLEs in soda bottles, nobody but John McClane should be.
Sep 13, 2010, 5:40 am
#70
Suspended
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Posts: 2,726
Sep 13, 2010, 5:50 am
#71
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Sep 13, 2010, 5:58 am
#72
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This system has worked well since it was inaugerated after a successful hijacking of an El Al plane in 1968. Since then, there have been a number of attempts, all but one stopped before the passenger got on the plane.
(In that one case, the hijacker was overpowered by Israeli security agents on the plane.)
Sep 13, 2010, 8:32 am
#73
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Remember the reason that Israel is not concerned -- it has very well-trained Security people who have been satisfied that the passenger presents no threat.
This system has worked well since it was inaugerated after a successful hijacking of an El Al plane in 1968. Since then, there have been a number of attempts, all but one stopped before the passenger got on the plane.
(In that one case, the hijacker was overpowered by Israeli security agents on the plane.)
This system has worked well since it was inaugerated after a successful hijacking of an El Al plane in 1968. Since then, there have been a number of attempts, all but one stopped before the passenger got on the plane.
(In that one case, the hijacker was overpowered by Israeli security agents on the plane.)
Which is probably why real security experts aren't peeing in their pants over full size bottles of soda.
Sep 14, 2010, 11:23 am
#75
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 13