Tantric TSA: The art of foreplay
Sep 9, 2010, 6:44 pm
#46
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I’m sure that a few of the folks on the list at the link below would say the same thing about their experience, if they were given the chance.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mem...lists/by-name/
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mem...lists/by-name/
Sep 9, 2010, 6:48 pm
#47
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Sep 9, 2010, 6:57 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2005
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^^^
^^^
Once you hear the truth - everything else is just cheap whiskey
To the OP Tyler1988 : this was a phenomenal post and I think everybody enjoyed your writing skills. I feel for you. You are a young fellow, I am in my late 60s and I had to endure the same thing. I always wonder, what other people think when these idiot TSA people feel me up in full view. I fear it could be worse, if someone requests a private screening room. At our age, we seniors normally are "left alone". But not when it comes to the government. There was a young attractive woman with a tight summer dress and she was waived thru without any problems. Me, the smart and experienced traveler wearing loose clothing ( not so smart! ), was subjected to the rigorous search. I can't wait to see what happens when I am in my eighties, maybe in a wheelchair?
After I retired from flying I have traveled most of the world as a regular tourist. I have never ever, not even in totalitarian states, been treated as bad and without any regard to being a human being as I am being treated in the U.S. as a U.S. citizen. That includes TSA and of course immigration and customs ( did I mention the DMV? ). And these folks are paid with my dollars. In my honest opinion, Nazi Germany could not have been much worse, as far as trampling on people's rights. We are being lined up, screamed at and shoved around like objects, not like human beings. In the name of what? The land of the free? Give me a break!!!
After I retired from flying I have traveled most of the world as a regular tourist. I have never ever, not even in totalitarian states, been treated as bad and without any regard to being a human being as I am being treated in the U.S. as a U.S. citizen. That includes TSA and of course immigration and customs ( did I mention the DMV? ). And these folks are paid with my dollars. In my honest opinion, Nazi Germany could not have been much worse, as far as trampling on people's rights. We are being lined up, screamed at and shoved around like objects, not like human beings. In the name of what? The land of the free? Give me a break!!!
Once you hear the truth - everything else is just cheap whiskey
Sep 10, 2010, 3:02 am
#50
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Is it too late for me to sue Selective Service because, at my induction physical, the doctor grabbed my balls and told me turn my head and cough?
Sep 10, 2010, 3:25 am
#51
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The idea of a uniformed TSA screening man grabbing your scrotum and telling you to turn your head and cough is an incident you'd tolerate like that with a military volunteer or conscript's medical check-ups performed by doctors? Welcomed, tolerated, or otherwise, it's a fetish scene I'd rather avoid.
I wonder what happens if a TSO is confronted with a family member or neighbor to do a grope. Can the TSO recuse him/herself? Even if I were comfortable groping strangers, I'm sure I couldn't grope my family, my pastor, my neighbor, my kids' school teachers...not publicly or privately.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Sep 10, 2010 at 1:06 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Sep 10, 2010, 6:16 am
#52
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Posts: 4,953
Nor are they properly trained and licensed to run equipment that emits radiation or microwaves.....
Sep 10, 2010, 6:19 am
#53
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: INN
Programs: LH, KLM, BA
Posts: 566
Its all a scam
The problem with all this is that it actually does very little to prevent terrorist attacks on air travel. Historically 90% of all terrorist attacks on airliners was possible through inside help getting explosives and weapons on board the aircraft, and this threat has not been drastically diminished.
The screening of passengers serves only as a psychological crutch to reassure the public on the one hand and to combat an increasing trend of unemployment.
The mundane excuses spouted by the TSO's and their counterparts around the world have been so ingrained in their so-called training, that it borders on the ludicrous.
In some countries the level of intelligence of the TSO's is so minimal, it is likely that they would have trouble getting a job at MacDonalds, but a badge and the cover of a quago turns them into this interesting character we call security personnel.
But lets stop venting our anger at the general level of incompetence of these people that so obviously need a job, and turn to a few interesting thoughts.
1. AFIR (and I have an MA in international security) no "successful" airline terrorist act was carried out by the perpetrator bringing the explosives or weaponry on board themselves, rather this was always done by accomplices from outside such as cleaning crews, catering companies etc - why, because there was traditionally little or no security there. The exception to this is knives, or swiss army knives, and most of us can attest to how easy it is to get on board with those.
2. in most business classes meals are still served with metal cutlery. Does the TSA actually believe terrorists don't buy business class tickets? PLeeease!
3. The 100 ml one plastic bag rule is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There have been enough tests to prove that even 100ml of liquid explosive detonated at 30,000 feet would if placed in the right area, tear an airplane to shreds.
4. There are much better ways to inflict maximum damage and terror than to try and hijack a plane. In fact the amount of physical damage is not the key element of a terrorists plan but rather how much psychological damage he/she creates and ultimately how much pressure the civilian population can bring on the government to amend/change its policy which is ultimatly the goal of a terrorist.
4. Which begs the question of whether we haven't already actually lost the war on terrorism? Since 9/11 how many trillions of dollars have been spent on combating potential terrorist threats? how many resources have been put into the same, and how crippling to the economy is it all. How many passengers end up looking for alternative methods of transportation, rather than have to put up with the antics of High school educated thugs in a uniform?
5. You want to stop terrorism? stop giving it a media value, stop making it attractive to target the United States, and stop making geo political decisions that are motivated by money/oil/ or the political vote that you might lose if you decide on something.
6. Finally stop giving the security companies the incentive to earn so much from these situations. There is a vested interest in keeping the public scared - its called money, and there is a lot of it in this game.
The problem is there is no such thing as complete security, and neither the TSA nor any other government or NGO can ever effectively provide that. They know it and that is the conundrum. While it may be a scam in my opinion, the scam does have its vital role to play in this, otherwise the potential damage to the airline industry, and all the other industries that live of this industry would be unable to survive and the resultant mass depression would probably set countries like the United States and a lot of those in Western Europe back 100 years before there was air travel, so we will have to live with TSOs that are semi literate, strip searches and harrasment until there is no more terrorism.
apologies if my rant has been echoed elsewhere in this forum, just realised this is not my normal miles and more/star Alliance forum........
The screening of passengers serves only as a psychological crutch to reassure the public on the one hand and to combat an increasing trend of unemployment.
The mundane excuses spouted by the TSO's and their counterparts around the world have been so ingrained in their so-called training, that it borders on the ludicrous.
In some countries the level of intelligence of the TSO's is so minimal, it is likely that they would have trouble getting a job at MacDonalds, but a badge and the cover of a quago turns them into this interesting character we call security personnel.
But lets stop venting our anger at the general level of incompetence of these people that so obviously need a job, and turn to a few interesting thoughts.
1. AFIR (and I have an MA in international security) no "successful" airline terrorist act was carried out by the perpetrator bringing the explosives or weaponry on board themselves, rather this was always done by accomplices from outside such as cleaning crews, catering companies etc - why, because there was traditionally little or no security there. The exception to this is knives, or swiss army knives, and most of us can attest to how easy it is to get on board with those.
2. in most business classes meals are still served with metal cutlery. Does the TSA actually believe terrorists don't buy business class tickets? PLeeease!
3. The 100 ml one plastic bag rule is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There have been enough tests to prove that even 100ml of liquid explosive detonated at 30,000 feet would if placed in the right area, tear an airplane to shreds.
4. There are much better ways to inflict maximum damage and terror than to try and hijack a plane. In fact the amount of physical damage is not the key element of a terrorists plan but rather how much psychological damage he/she creates and ultimately how much pressure the civilian population can bring on the government to amend/change its policy which is ultimatly the goal of a terrorist.
4. Which begs the question of whether we haven't already actually lost the war on terrorism? Since 9/11 how many trillions of dollars have been spent on combating potential terrorist threats? how many resources have been put into the same, and how crippling to the economy is it all. How many passengers end up looking for alternative methods of transportation, rather than have to put up with the antics of High school educated thugs in a uniform?
5. You want to stop terrorism? stop giving it a media value, stop making it attractive to target the United States, and stop making geo political decisions that are motivated by money/oil/ or the political vote that you might lose if you decide on something.
6. Finally stop giving the security companies the incentive to earn so much from these situations. There is a vested interest in keeping the public scared - its called money, and there is a lot of it in this game.
The problem is there is no such thing as complete security, and neither the TSA nor any other government or NGO can ever effectively provide that. They know it and that is the conundrum. While it may be a scam in my opinion, the scam does have its vital role to play in this, otherwise the potential damage to the airline industry, and all the other industries that live of this industry would be unable to survive and the resultant mass depression would probably set countries like the United States and a lot of those in Western Europe back 100 years before there was air travel, so we will have to live with TSOs that are semi literate, strip searches and harrasment until there is no more terrorism.
apologies if my rant has been echoed elsewhere in this forum, just realised this is not my normal miles and more/star Alliance forum........
Last edited by nswat; Sep 10, 2010 at 6:48 am
Sep 10, 2010, 7:47 am
#54
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I’m sure that a few of the folks on the list at the link below would say the same thing about their experience, if they were given the chance.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mem...lists/by-name/
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mem...lists/by-name/
Since you allude to keeping us safer by invading our privacy and groping us, I'll remind you -- nothing the 9/11 hijackers are known to have been carrying (box cutters) was against the rules at the time. There were no security failures. There were different procedures in place that did not account for the fact that hijackers might not care about staying alive.
Sep 10, 2010, 8:46 am
#56
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The World.
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Posts: 1,225
Thankfuly I have avoided any trouble and the scanners, without even opting out once.
I dont know about others, but I'd pay an extra fee to be respectufuly and professionaly searched like I was in AMS or BRU. They were truly amazing professional and courteous and that made my experience very tolerable.
Sep 10, 2010, 1:21 pm
#58
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
The problem with all this is that it actually does very little to prevent terrorist attacks on air travel. Historically 90% of all terrorist attacks on airliners was possible through inside help getting explosives and weapons on board the aircraft, and this threat has not been drastically diminished.
The screening of passengers serves only as a psychological crutch to reassure the public on the one hand and to combat an increasing trend of unemployment.
The mundane excuses spouted by the TSO's and their counterparts around the world have been so ingrained in their so-called training, that it borders on the ludicrous.
In some countries the level of intelligence of the TSO's is so minimal, it is likely that they would have trouble getting a job at MacDonalds, but a badge and the cover of a quago turns them into this interesting character we call security personnel.
But lets stop venting our anger at the general level of incompetence of these people that so obviously need a job, and turn to a few interesting thoughts.
1. AFIR (and I have an MA in international security) no "successful" airline terrorist act was carried out by the perpetrator bringing the explosives or weaponry on board themselves, rather this was always done by accomplices from outside such as cleaning crews, catering companies etc - why, because there was traditionally little or no security there. The exception to this is knives, or swiss army knives, and most of us can attest to how easy it is to get on board with those.
2. in most business classes meals are still served with metal cutlery. Does the TSA actually believe terrorists don't buy business class tickets? PLeeease!
3. The 100 ml one plastic bag rule is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There have been enough tests to prove that even 100ml of liquid explosive detonated at 30,000 feet would if placed in the right area, tear an airplane to shreds.
4. There are much better ways to inflict maximum damage and terror than to try and hijack a plane. In fact the amount of physical damage is not the key element of a terrorists plan but rather how much psychological damage he/she creates and ultimately how much pressure the civilian population can bring on the government to amend/change its policy which is ultimatly the goal of a terrorist.
4. Which begs the question of whether we haven't already actually lost the war on terrorism? Since 9/11 how many trillions of dollars have been spent on combating potential terrorist threats? how many resources have been put into the same, and how crippling to the economy is it all. How many passengers end up looking for alternative methods of transportation, rather than have to put up with the antics of High school educated thugs in a uniform?
5. You want to stop terrorism? stop giving it a media value, stop making it attractive to target the United States, and stop making geo political decisions that are motivated by money/oil/ or the political vote that you might lose if you decide on something.
6. Finally stop giving the security companies the incentive to earn so much from these situations. There is a vested interest in keeping the public scared - its called money, and there is a lot of it in this game.
The problem is there is no such thing as complete security, and neither the TSA nor any other government or NGO can ever effectively provide that. They know it and that is the conundrum. While it may be a scam in my opinion, the scam does have its vital role to play in this, otherwise the potential damage to the airline industry, and all the other industries that live of this industry would be unable to survive and the resultant mass depression would probably set countries like the United States and a lot of those in Western Europe back 100 years before there was air travel, so we will have to live with TSOs that are semi literate, strip searches and harrasment until there is no more terrorism.
apologies if my rant has been echoed elsewhere in this forum, just realised this is not my normal miles and more/star Alliance forum........
The screening of passengers serves only as a psychological crutch to reassure the public on the one hand and to combat an increasing trend of unemployment.
The mundane excuses spouted by the TSO's and their counterparts around the world have been so ingrained in their so-called training, that it borders on the ludicrous.
In some countries the level of intelligence of the TSO's is so minimal, it is likely that they would have trouble getting a job at MacDonalds, but a badge and the cover of a quago turns them into this interesting character we call security personnel.
But lets stop venting our anger at the general level of incompetence of these people that so obviously need a job, and turn to a few interesting thoughts.
1. AFIR (and I have an MA in international security) no "successful" airline terrorist act was carried out by the perpetrator bringing the explosives or weaponry on board themselves, rather this was always done by accomplices from outside such as cleaning crews, catering companies etc - why, because there was traditionally little or no security there. The exception to this is knives, or swiss army knives, and most of us can attest to how easy it is to get on board with those.
2. in most business classes meals are still served with metal cutlery. Does the TSA actually believe terrorists don't buy business class tickets? PLeeease!
3. The 100 ml one plastic bag rule is so ridiculous it beggars belief. There have been enough tests to prove that even 100ml of liquid explosive detonated at 30,000 feet would if placed in the right area, tear an airplane to shreds.
4. There are much better ways to inflict maximum damage and terror than to try and hijack a plane. In fact the amount of physical damage is not the key element of a terrorists plan but rather how much psychological damage he/she creates and ultimately how much pressure the civilian population can bring on the government to amend/change its policy which is ultimatly the goal of a terrorist.
4. Which begs the question of whether we haven't already actually lost the war on terrorism? Since 9/11 how many trillions of dollars have been spent on combating potential terrorist threats? how many resources have been put into the same, and how crippling to the economy is it all. How many passengers end up looking for alternative methods of transportation, rather than have to put up with the antics of High school educated thugs in a uniform?
5. You want to stop terrorism? stop giving it a media value, stop making it attractive to target the United States, and stop making geo political decisions that are motivated by money/oil/ or the political vote that you might lose if you decide on something.
6. Finally stop giving the security companies the incentive to earn so much from these situations. There is a vested interest in keeping the public scared - its called money, and there is a lot of it in this game.
The problem is there is no such thing as complete security, and neither the TSA nor any other government or NGO can ever effectively provide that. They know it and that is the conundrum. While it may be a scam in my opinion, the scam does have its vital role to play in this, otherwise the potential damage to the airline industry, and all the other industries that live of this industry would be unable to survive and the resultant mass depression would probably set countries like the United States and a lot of those in Western Europe back 100 years before there was air travel, so we will have to live with TSOs that are semi literate, strip searches and harrasment until there is no more terrorism.
apologies if my rant has been echoed elsewhere in this forum, just realised this is not my normal miles and more/star Alliance forum........
As a security analyst I heard interviewed last week said: "OBL, in his cave, is laughing himself silly" at who we have become in the last 9 years.
Sep 10, 2010, 1:52 pm
#59
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Irrelevant. The physical examination administered to inductees has nothing to do with a suspicion-less administrative search pursuant to the Fourth Amendment.
Sep 10, 2010, 2:08 pm
#60
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,927
The doctor who grabbed my naked nuts had no reason to believe that I had a hernia. However, he was making certain that I didn't.
The TSA screener who might touch my very clothed nuts has no reason to believe that I am concealing a weapon there. However, he is making certain that I don't.
(Indeed, I would imagine that during the Vietnam War the doctors didn't find very many people who had hernias and didn't come in to the induction center happily waiving a doctor's certificate announcing that fact.)