New Belt Rules (Different experiences @ BOS this weekend, Follow-up to TSA)
 

This past Sunday, I was scheduled to fly BOS-DCA-STL on American.

Arrived at the American portion of Terminal B about 12pm -- went through security with no problems: Shoes off, laptop & liquids out.

Flight to DCA was overbooked by 6 -- got my first bump in 3 years (woohoo!). Rebooked on USAirways BOS-DCA and a later American flight DCA-STL. Went over to the USAirways portion of Terminal B after printing my boarding pass from USAirways.com.

Knew there was trouble to be had when -- upon walking up to the checkpoint area -- the barker (the TSA agent in front of the WTMD) was saying "All items must be put through the scanners. Everything out of your pockets. Shoes off. Belts off." Funny -- I had gone through BOS security less than three hours ago and I didn't have to remove my belt.

As I approached the WTMD, I did what I always did -- shoes off, laptop out, liquids out, belt on, boarding pass and ID in my pocket. The agent said I had to remove my belt. I refused. He then ordered me over to the Nude-O-Scope (totally retaliatory).

I waited in line behind two people already up for the Nude-O-Scope. When it was my turn, I opted out -- and was told my belt had to be removed. I complied at this point (realizing they would probably ban me from flying otherwise). Went through the manual patdown and -- during my exchange with that officer -- he didn't understand why I was sent to the Nude-o-Scope for refusing to remove my belt.

Asked for a comment card from the 3-striper. He said "we're following procedure" -- apparently no one else is.

Called the # on the BOS comment card today. Spent about 15 minutes on the phone with someone who was actually friendly and mostly helpful.

Gave enough information which raised some of her suspicions (she claimed I may have been sent over to the Nude-O-Scope as they were supposed to have someone there at all times -- I told her there were 2 people waiting when I was sent there). She asked for enough information to review CC TV recordings to see what happened -- and promised a call back.

However, she indicated there were new rules coming down from Washington this week -- with BOS & LAS being the initial airports -- where all passengers were to remove their belts. I"m suspicious.. any experiences at those airports this week to indicate this is true?

Greg

it's begining to sound as if you will ultimately get a strip search whether you go through the scanner or not...

No experience but I'd be suspicious, too. If there was a new "all belts off" policy, wouldn't it just go into effect? Even for TSA, it's not like it's so complicated that they'd need to trial it at two airports first. :rolleyes: (Although "all belts off" is certainly stupid enough to be a new TSA policy.)

I'm beginning to believe that the only thing consistent about TSA is that when they make up rules, they claim it's a new policy the other airports don't know about/ haven't implemented yet.

I rarely take off my belt (LAS based) when I travel - but if I have a removeable belt buckle on (i.e. if I'm not dressed for biz travel), I'll usually take off the buckle & walk through...I've never had an issue. I used to be DC based, and my untucked shirt often covered my belt with no problem...

Last week on Wednesday afternoon I went through BOS security and had the barker saying the same thing. Peep show booth was in effect and I had to opt out as I was the chosen one. Not retaliatory as far as I could tell, the booth just opened up as I was next in line.

Monday of this week I went through again but on a busy Monday morning and the booth was not in use at all and there was no barking about putting everything in the x-ray.

If there is a policy it has to do with the WBI, which are not at all airports, in fact, most airports currently do not have WBIs. If you opt out of the WBI you receive a pat-down, and belt has to come off. If you go through the WBI, belt has to come off.

Uh, nice theory but it doesn't address the point. OP was told that BOS and LAS were the "initial airports" for this "new policy" and there are a lot more airports with WBI than BOS and LAS. Furthermore the OP indicated that he was instructed to remove his belt as he was headed for the WTMD (not the WBI) and he was later told the policy was for all passengers, not just those going to/through the nude-o-scope.

Unless of course, there's a "new" policy of belts off for the WBI, but the idiot in BOS thought it would be easier (for him) to claim it was for all passengers.

Or BOS is setting up to be the next "everyone goes through the nude-o-scope" like ELP.

I hate to say it, but if the screener was claiming it was for all passengers, you've justified the argument. You have said "Why BOS and not all airports", which inevitably translates to "why me and not everyone else?". Rather than having that conversation with a hundred passengers, they probably thought it was more efficient to do it that way. I don't always fault screeners for trying to avoid the whole "WTMD debate" scenario. I've been behind plenty of people in line who claim "this doesn't ring" while watching the metal detector go off. This is inevitably followed by the "it didn't go off in XXX" conversation. I really don't care where it did or didn't go off, shut up and get through the mag so I can get my stocking feet of this nasty floor. ;)

There's a upside to this: the more hassle passengers get from TSA, the more people will complain. People start losing their trou at WBI, being embarrassed or humiliated by such, more complaints will ensue.

The more items that go missing at WBI due to the divest yourself of everything, more complaints will ensue.

I am what you would call a road warrior, yet I have never had any problems going through the WTMD because of my belt, why, because I always take my belt off and put in my carry-on along with everything else in my pockets, including my wallet. The less you have on you that could cause any problems with screening, the faster you get through screening and less chances of being patted down.

I can count on one hand the amount of times I have been patted down or have had my carry-on luggage opened for inspection by the TSA over the past few years, and that’s from flying over a million miles on AA alone since 9-11. Why, because I play by their rules, it keeps them happy and I am less stressed out because of it, argue with the TSA and they can make life more difficult and possibly delay you enough to miss your flight.

Mr. Elliott

You know, it would probably be a good idea to stop and ponder for a moment what life would be like today if, in the course of history, people just did whatever it took to keep the government happy.

By the same token, I have never taken off my belt when going through security. It is the same belt I always wear when traveling (for comfort). That belt has never set off an alarm at PHX, SNA, LAX, BUR, SAN, SEA, ABQ, ONT, OAK, MHT, JFK, EWR, ORD, MDW, DFW, and several others. At some point, I have to know why the belt that has never set off any alarm in about, oh, hundreds of trips over the last few years now needs to come off.

Did I miss the story about how someone hapless "terrorist" threatened to take down a plane by removing his belt and letting his pants drop?

I am also a road warrior, having been a 1K for 8 of the last 12 years and having had top tier status on other airlines the other 4 years.

I am patted down each time I fly. The reason? I have health conditions that preclude me from removing my shoes or from going thru the nude-o-scope, and I travel with a medical device (CPAP) that for whatever reason, they feel the need to secondary. I play by their rules, but because of issues beyond my control, I am patted down twice a week.

This faux security costs me 2 hours a week, as there have been times it has taken my an hour each way, so I have to plan for it to take that long or risk missing my flight. Since I work 50-60 hours each week and travel 12 hours each week, these two hours are precious to me.

I am happy for you that you do not have to go thru what I do, but you should realize that it is not all happy, happy, joy, joy for all of us.

If I thought there was a single benefit for the pat downs, I would probably not have as big an issue with it, but my home airport (LAS) is very aware of who I am and yet, they still waste my time (and theirs) with this garbage. Since I got the Customer Relations people at the TSA involved, they have improved, but they are still very rude to me. They just now, do not try to throw away my medical supplies.

So, do you suggest that I should forego my health concerns, remove my shoes, be exposed to radiation (as a skin cancer survivor) and allow them to throw away my medically required supplies?

Building pyramids or Feudalism would be about it.

Right, because belts are almost as dangerous as Pepsi or flip-flops. Idiots. :rolleyes:

Uh, what i said is NOT a theory, it's fact. If you go though the WBI, belt off, if you opt-out, belt off. It does not matter which airport; it applies to every airport with a WBI.

Nah; based on the rest of your post, I think I'd call you something quite different... ;)

I flew out of PHX last Friday on US, went through the B C/P and they have instituted the "belts off rule" as well it seems. I had just flown 2 weeks prior there was no "belts off rule" and had no issues, and havent ever had issues with the belt I wear while traveling. On the flip side, I flew out of MSP last night, and there was no mention of removing a belt, but they are pretty efficient up there...arrived at the airport at 520p and was at the gate by 526p :)

Pretentious?

Don't think that's a theory either.

I flew through LGA on Friday (Marine Air Terminal), and my belt alarmed the WTMD for the first time in memory. Didn't on Monday at ORD, though. Wonder if they're starting to set the WTMD sensitivity higher?

And if they're doing that, it would follow that they'll eventually just crank up the sensitivity of the WBIs as well.. which means even higher doses of radiation.

You're comparing apples and oranges here. If the "sensitivity" was turned up on the Nude-O-Scopes, I would suppose it would be similar to turning up the RF gain on a receiver, resulting in just more "noise".

Not true - In the case of X-Ray backscatter, increasing the radiation would improve the signal to noise ratio, resulting in a clearer image with improved contrast.

The "gain" is already up to the noise limit, this would increase the signal!

But that doesn't apply if you go through the WTMD at an airport with a WBI, right? I was not sent over to the WBI until after I questioned why I had to take my belt off.

The agent who patted me down said he didn't understand why I was sent over to the WBI for refusing to take off my belt.

The TSA manager who I spoke with yesterday wondered if I was sent to the WBI as it was to be in use constantly. I replied that was not the case since there were two people in line for it when I was sent over.

So, my two thoughts are still:

1. Boston USAirway Checkpoint making up new belt "rule".
2. I was sent over to the WBI as retaliation for not voluntarily taking my belt off to go through the WTMD.

Greg

Theory of what?

What I stated is a fact; sorry.

You could have been sent to the WBI as retaliation; anything is possible.

However, I do believe I understand about the "rule". When a TSO is in the que position, they are directed to inform passengers about certain policies. Shoes off, jackets and coats off, computer out of the bag...

Except we know that if you have a certain bag, you do not need to take the computer out. Not everyone needs to take their shoes off (medical exceptions), if the jacket and coat is your outer most garmet, you do not need to take it off.

It becomes cumbersom and actually more confusing for passengers - in general, do not forget that, in general - when the que person starts stating all the exceptions. It can actually slow the entire checkpoint down - I have seen that happen, whether or not anyone here believes me, it doesn't really matter to me.

So if you have a TSO in que who is directing both the passengers in front of the WTMD and those in front of the WBI, it can quickly become a problem to issue 2 sets of instructions. So the base denominator of instructions becomes the most efficient to do, for the general traveling public.

Howeve, there is a newer rule coming down regarding belts; they will all have to eventually come off, but that is a bit away. When WBIs are at all checkpoints, and that is all that is open, all belts come off, regardless of whether or not the passenger goes through the WTMD. Again, some time off, most likely a few years (there should be approx. 500 WBIs out by the end of December 2010, and approx. 800 more by the end of 2011. Great fun.).

Probably because the Nude-O-Scope cannot "see" past the thick leather of a belt, correct?

IN other words, it's not done because of any security benefit, it's done for administrative convenience.

And exactly what security benefit is provided by taking a belt off for an opt-out? None. Ergo, it is done as a retaliatory measure.

Certainly possible as a retaliation for opting-out, but perhaps part of the "enhanced" pat-down you get as a result of not meekly complying.

The real reason might be close to what SATTSO wrote; two sets of instructions are confusing for the screeners. I'm sure most passengers would be able to cope :cool: .

Yes Sir, Mr. Boss Man, Sir. How high do you want me to jump? :rolleyes:

My belt never alarmed when going through IND until this last trip which tells me that someone adjusted the sensitivity settings. :mad:

Both CPAP and cancer survivor here. Getting TSOs at any airport I have flown out of to use new gloves when handling the CPAP is next to impossible. The expression on their faces is as if they get pure pleasure in handling the CPAP with used gloves.

+1

By "if you have a certain bag, you do not need to take the computer out" do you mean laptops bags meeting "TSA checkpoint friendly guidelines"? If so, then some of your colleagues @ BWI, IND, PHX and DEN need remediation as we have been told that regardless of the type of bag "all laptops need to be removed and put in a bin". Mentioning once that the bag meets TSA requirements resulted in a lengthy and detailed inspection of Mrs. Italy and my bags. :td: :mad:

Same thing happened to me in IND a week ago, Barker at the front of the x-ray machine yelling at everyone to take off their belt and no papers in pocket, not wallet, etc. I had placed my boarding pass in my back pocket, and after going through the x-ray no one freaked out... there were only two lines moving and he alternated between x-ray and metal detector between the two lines.

Funny thing is that on the way to IND and on my trip to-and-from MSY the same week it was business as usual, I just figured TSA at IND was nuts.

Yet another BS policy. When is the mandatory "everyone walk through naked" policy going into effect? If we are going to be chicken littles about fracking belts...oh, wait, all those ceramic knife belt buckles that one cannot use to get through the cockpit door...[/sarcasm]

God save me from the damn TSA and their asinine policies...they truly are trying to kill travel.

Think I will start wearing my loose fitting jeans and allowing them to fall to my ankles when TSA requires me to take off my goddamn belt.

Don't forget these, DevilDog. :D

Lol

It may very well be confusing for some screeners, but so too for some passengers; sadly I have seen that. And for the most part, I give simplified instructions when in the que position, and answer and specific questions a passenger may ask. I have found that works best.

That reminds me...need a new web belt...time to go shopping.

Hmmm if your pants fall down will other passengers laugh or shudder?

Probably both...I am definitely in the "Not so lean, not so mean, still a Marine" category.

And why have you invented this latest fetish of yours, exactly? Has there been an outbreak of terrorists taking over planes with their belts?

In all fairness to SATTSO, he did not invent it - he is just passing information for which TSA has issued no formal statements to the traveling public. However, I am sure we will never hear more than token answers from any official source. Probably mumblings about x number of incidents of razor blades/ceramic knives hidden in belts. I think one of the other posters hit it on the head - leather belts will make it difficult for the WBI to scan through the waistband of clothing items and we must go with the least common denominator...since WBI victims have to remove belts, all must remove belts.

This is going to be interesting when they make a woman remove a belt that is the only piece that properly holds together some outfit...

One older man I was screening warned that if his pants fell down we would have to protect him from the rush of women coming to jump his bones. He actually pointed out to a cute woman walking by and told her to stay away, "I'm married". It was actually very funny.