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New Belt Rules (Different experiences @ BOS this weekend, Follow-up to TSA)

New Belt Rules (Different experiences @ BOS this weekend, Follow-up to TSA)

Old Aug 18, 10, 10:36 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl View Post
Uh, nice theory but it doesn't address the point. OP was told that BOS and LAS were the "initial airports" for this "new policy" and there are a lot more airports with WBI than BOS and LAS. Furthermore the OP indicated that he was instructed to remove his belt as he was headed for the WTMD (not the WBI) and he was later told the policy was for all passengers, not just those going to/through the nude-o-scope.

Unless of course, there's a "new" policy of belts off for the WBI, but the idiot in BOS thought it would be easier (for him) to claim it was for all passengers.

Or BOS is setting up to be the next "everyone goes through the nude-o-scope" like ELP.
Uh, what i said is NOT a theory, it's fact. If you go though the WBI, belt off, if you opt-out, belt off. It does not matter which airport; it applies to every airport with a WBI.
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Old Aug 18, 10, 10:44 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott View Post
I am what you would call a road warrior....
Nah; based on the rest of your post, I think I'd call you something quite different...
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Old Aug 18, 10, 12:07 pm
  #18  
 
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I flew out of PHX last Friday on US, went through the B C/P and they have instituted the "belts off rule" as well it seems. I had just flown 2 weeks prior there was no "belts off rule" and had no issues, and havent ever had issues with the belt I wear while traveling. On the flip side, I flew out of MSP last night, and there was no mention of removing a belt, but they are pretty efficient up there...arrived at the airport at 520p and was at the gate by 526p
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Old Aug 18, 10, 12:29 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by NY-FLA View Post
Nah; based on the rest of your post, I think I'd call you something quite different...
Pretentious?
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Old Aug 18, 10, 1:14 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
Uh, what i said is NOT a theory, it's fact. If you go though the WBI, belt off, if you opt-out, belt off. It does not matter which airport; it applies to every airport with a WBI.
Don't think that's a theory either.

Last edited by arietal; Aug 19, 10 at 12:38 pm
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Old Aug 18, 10, 3:14 pm
  #21  
 
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I flew through LGA on Friday (Marine Air Terminal), and my belt alarmed the WTMD for the first time in memory. Didn't on Monday at ORD, though. Wonder if they're starting to set the WTMD sensitivity higher?
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Old Aug 18, 10, 3:19 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123 View Post
I flew through LGA on Friday (Marine Air Terminal), and my belt alarmed the WTMD for the first time in memory. Didn't on Monday at ORD, though. Wonder if they're starting to set the WTMD sensitivity higher?
And if they're doing that, it would follow that they'll eventually just crank up the sensitivity of the WBIs as well.. which means even higher doses of radiation.
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Old Aug 18, 10, 3:40 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by mozgytog View Post
And if they're doing that, it would follow that they'll eventually just crank up the sensitivity of the WBIs as well.. which means even higher doses of radiation.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. If the "sensitivity" was turned up on the Nude-O-Scopes, I would suppose it would be similar to turning up the RF gain on a receiver, resulting in just more "noise".
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Old Aug 18, 10, 3:48 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges here. If the "sensitivity" was turned up on the Nude-O-Scopes, I would suppose it would be similar to turning up the RF gain on a receiver, resulting in just more "noise".
Not true - In the case of X-Ray backscatter, increasing the radiation would improve the signal to noise ratio, resulting in a clearer image with improved contrast.

The "gain" is already up to the noise limit, this would increase the signal!
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Old Aug 18, 10, 3:58 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
Uh, what i said is NOT a theory, it's fact. If you go though the WBI, belt off, if you opt-out, belt off. It does not matter which airport; it applies to every airport with a WBI.
But that doesn't apply if you go through the WTMD at an airport with a WBI, right? I was not sent over to the WBI until after I questioned why I had to take my belt off.

The agent who patted me down said he didn't understand why I was sent over to the WBI for refusing to take off my belt.

The TSA manager who I spoke with yesterday wondered if I was sent to the WBI as it was to be in use constantly. I replied that was not the case since there were two people in line for it when I was sent over.

So, my two thoughts are still:
  1. Boston USAirway Checkpoint making up new belt "rule".
  2. I was sent over to the WBI as retaliation for not voluntarily taking my belt off to go through the WTMD.

Greg
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Old Aug 18, 10, 4:13 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by arietal View Post
Don't think that's a theory either.
Theory of what?

What I stated is a fact; sorry.

Originally Posted by GregL View Post
But that doesn't apply if you go through the WTMD at an airport with a WBI, right? I was not sent over to the WBI until after I questioned why I had to take my belt off.

The agent who patted me down said he didn't understand why I was sent over to the WBI for refusing to take off my belt.

The TSA manager who I spoke with yesterday wondered if I was sent to the WBI as it was to be in use constantly. I replied that was not the case since there were two people in line for it when I was sent over.

So, my two thoughts are still:
  1. Boston USAirway Checkpoint making up new belt "rule".
  2. I was sent over to the WBI as retaliation for not voluntarily taking my belt off to go through the WTMD.

Greg
You could have been sent to the WBI as retaliation; anything is possible.

However, I do believe I understand about the "rule". When a TSO is in the que position, they are directed to inform passengers about certain policies. Shoes off, jackets and coats off, computer out of the bag...

Except we know that if you have a certain bag, you do not need to take the computer out. Not everyone needs to take their shoes off (medical exceptions), if the jacket and coat is your outer most garmet, you do not need to take it off.

It becomes cumbersom and actually more confusing for passengers - in general, do not forget that, in general - when the que person starts stating all the exceptions. It can actually slow the entire checkpoint down - I have seen that happen, whether or not anyone here believes me, it doesn't really matter to me.

So if you have a TSO in que who is directing both the passengers in front of the WTMD and those in front of the WBI, it can quickly become a problem to issue 2 sets of instructions. So the base denominator of instructions becomes the most efficient to do, for the general traveling public.

Howeve, there is a newer rule coming down regarding belts; they will all have to eventually come off, but that is a bit away. When WBIs are at all checkpoints, and that is all that is open, all belts come off, regardless of whether or not the passenger goes through the WTMD. Again, some time off, most likely a few years (there should be approx. 500 WBIs out by the end of December 2010, and approx. 800 more by the end of 2011. Great fun.).

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Aug 19, 10 at 2:45 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Aug 18, 10, 5:38 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
Howeve, there is a newer rule coming down regarding belts; they will all have to eventually come off, but that is a bit away. When WBIs are at all checkpoints, and that is all that is open, all belts come off, regardless of whether or not the passenger goes through the WTMD.
Probably because the Nude-O-Scope cannot "see" past the thick leather of a belt, correct?
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Old Aug 18, 10, 6:09 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
I hate to say it, but if the screener was claiming it was for all passengers, you've justified the argument. You have said "Why BOS and not all airports", which inevitably translates to "why me and not everyone else?". Rather than having that conversation with a hundred passengers, they probably thought it was more efficient to do it that way. I don't always fault screeners for trying to avoid the whole "WTMD debate" scenario. I've been behind plenty of people in line who claim "this doesn't ring" while watching the metal detector go off. This is inevitably followed by the "it didn't go off in XXX" conversation. I really don't care where it did or didn't go off, shut up and get through the mag so I can get my stocking feet of this nasty floor.
IN other words, it's not done because of any security benefit, it's done for administrative convenience.

Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
Uh, what i said is NOT a theory, it's fact. If you go though the WBI, belt off, if you opt-out, belt off. It does not matter which airport; it applies to every airport with a WBI.
And exactly what security benefit is provided by taking a belt off for an opt-out? None. Ergo, it is done as a retaliatory measure.
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Old Aug 18, 10, 6:35 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer View Post
IN other words, it's not done because of any security benefit, it's done for administrative convenience.

And exactly what security benefit is provided by taking a belt off for an opt-out? None. Ergo, it is done as a retaliatory measure.
Certainly possible as a retaliation for opting-out, but perhaps part of the "enhanced" pat-down you get as a result of not meekly complying.

The real reason might be close to what SATTSO wrote; two sets of instructions are confusing for the screeners. I'm sure most passengers would be able to cope .
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Old Aug 18, 10, 6:45 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
You know, it would probably be a good idea to stop and ponder for a moment what life would be like today if, in the course of history, people just did whatever it took to keep the government happy.
Yes Sir, Mr. Boss Man, Sir. How high do you want me to jump?

Originally Posted by PhoenixRev View Post
By the same token, I have never taken off my belt when going through security. It is the same belt I always wear when traveling (for comfort). That belt has never set off an alarm at PHX, SNA, LAX, BUR, SAN, SEA, ABQ, ONT, OAK, MHT, JFK, EWR, ORD, MDW, DFW, and several others. At some point, I have to know why the belt that has never set off any alarm in about, oh, hundreds of trips over the last few years now needs to come off.

Did I miss the story about how someone hapless "terrorist" threatened to take down a plane by removing his belt and letting his pants drop?
My belt never alarmed when going through IND until this last trip which tells me that someone adjusted the sensitivity settings.

Originally Posted by debua1k View Post
I am also a road warrior, having been a 1K for 8 of the last 12 years and having had top tier status on other airlines the other 4 years.

I am patted down each time I fly. The reason? I have health conditions that preclude me from removing my shoes or from going thru the nude-o-scope, and I travel with a medical device (CPAP) that for whatever reason, they feel the need to secondary. I play by their rules, but because of issues beyond my control, I am patted down twice a week.

This faux security costs me 2 hours a week, as there have been times it has taken my an hour each way, so I have to plan for it to take that long or risk missing my flight. Since I work 50-60 hours each week and travel 12 hours each week, these two hours are precious to me.

I am happy for you that you do not have to go thru what I do, but you should realize that it is not all happy, happy, joy, joy for all of us.

If I thought there was a single benefit for the pat downs, I would probably not have as big an issue with it, but my home airport (LAS) is very aware of who I am and yet, they still waste my time (and theirs) with this garbage. Since I got the Customer Relations people at the TSA involved, they have improved, but they are still very rude to me. They just now, do not try to throw away my medical supplies.

So, do you suggest that I should forego my health concerns, remove my shoes, be exposed to radiation (as a skin cancer survivor) and allow them to throw away my medically required supplies?
Both CPAP and cancer survivor here. Getting TSOs at any airport I have flown out of to use new gloves when handling the CPAP is next to impossible. The expression on their faces is as if they get pure pleasure in handling the CPAP with used gloves.

Originally Posted by cestmoi123 View Post
I flew through LGA on Friday (Marine Air Terminal), and my belt alarmed the WTMD for the first time in memory. Didn't on Monday at ORD, though. Wonder if they're starting to set the WTMD sensitivity higher?
+1

Originally Posted by SATTSO View Post
You could have been sent to the WBI as retaliation; anything is possible.

However, I do believe I understand about the "rule". When a TSO is in the que position, they are directed to inform passengers about certain policies. Shoes off, jackets and coats off, computer out of the bag...

Except we know that if you have a certain bag, you do not need to take the computer out. Not everyone needs to take their shoes off (medical exceptions), if the jacket and coat is your outer most garmet, you do not need to take it off.

It becomes cumbersom and actually more confusing for passengers - in general, do not forget that, in general - when the que person starts stating all the exceptions. It can actually slow the entire checkpoint down - I have seen that happen, whether or not anyone here believes me, it doesn't really matter to me.

So if you have a TSO in que who is directing both the passengers in front of the WTMD and those in front of the WBI, it can quickly become a problem to issue 2 sets of instructions. So the base denominator of instructions becomes the most efficient to do, for the general traveling public.

Howeve, there is a newer rule coming down regarding belts; they will all have to eventually come off, but that is a bit away. When WBIs are at all checkpoints, and that is all that is open, all belts come off, regardless of whether or not the passenger goes through the WTMD. Again, some time off, most likely a few years (there should be approx. 500 WBIs out by the end of December 2010, and approx. 800 more by the end of 2011. Great fun.).
By "if you have a certain bag, you do not need to take the computer out" do you mean laptops bags meeting "TSA checkpoint friendly guidelines"? If so, then some of your colleagues @ BWI, IND, PHX and DEN need remediation as we have been told that regardless of the type of bag "all laptops need to be removed and put in a bin". Mentioning once that the bag meets TSA requirements resulted in a lengthy and detailed inspection of Mrs. Italy and my bags.
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