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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Intentional Slowdowns at WTMD to Encourage WBI Use (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1109727-intentional-slowdowns-wtmd-encourage-wbi-use.html)

JSmith1969 Jul 26, 2010 6:41 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369962)
Why, many here claim that TSA is keeping even the image resolution qualit secret.

That's a "claim" analogous to "claiming" that the sky is blue. Curtis "Bob" Burns has admitted on the TSA blog that he has never posted an sample strip-search machine image that's of the same size and resolution as those generated and seen by the operators of TSA's strip-search devices. Of course, it took nearly a year to force him to admit this. One wonders how long it will take him to share the name and contact information of his direct supervisor...

flyingbrick Jul 26, 2010 6:42 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369962)
So I stand by what I said: telling other passengers about these machines and what they can and do do, when that info isn't know, is nothing more than spreading fear.

Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

Superguy Jul 26, 2010 6:42 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369924)
Hmmm I doubt you do, as you and I differ on what we consider to be our "rights".

You don't consider freedom of speech to be a right?


Originally Posted by flyingbrick (Post 14370019)
Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

+1. Guess TSA's repeated "We're at Orange" messages repeated endlessly in the concourses don't count as spreading fear. :rolleyes:

SATTSO Jul 26, 2010 6:49 pm


Originally Posted by Superguy (Post 14370026)
You don't consider freedom of speech to be a right?

I do - but people disagree on what exactly that means. You know that. Do you and I hold the same beliefs regarding the freedom of speech?

Majuki Jul 26, 2010 6:49 pm


Originally Posted by 3Greyhounds (Post 14369786)
To the OP: was this at Terminal A or (the new) Terminal B?

This would have been Terminal A. Terminal B's checkpoint is designed exactly the same, way, so I imagine it won't be any different.


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369866)
Oh, i havent missed it. I wonder how much bad information is handed out, though. Isn't one of the complaints about the WBI and TSA that passengers don't have access to what the images are like and other SSI info?

I wouldn't cause a scene, like what star_world is suggesting. I would simply request to the TSO to opt-out. Again, where the machines are in use the sign clearly says. "The use of this technology is optional." Any additional - perhaps viewed by some as retaliatory - screening is up to the individual TSO. I haven't yet had to opt-out, but it seems like most TSOs will just do the required patdown and send you on your way. There's no scene or delay required.

As far as bad information, I am only exercising the opt-out option if it's needed. Many people who don't transit the checkpoints frequently are unaware of the alternative to the WBI, even if the signs are - or in some cases aren't - present. I also think a legitimate case can be made for frequent exposure to ionizing radiation. This obviously only applies to the backscatter machines, not the MMW. I have no problem going through the MMW machine for medical reasons, but I would still opt out rather than getting viewed by someone in a remote room.

Finally, my understanding is that the person viewing the images is not necessarily of the same gender as the person being screened, but I have the impression many think that the person viewing the images will be the same gender. Note that this is contrary to what I believe was originally TSA policy of: 1) same-gender viewing of WBI images, 2) no minors through WBI, and 3) would be mostly used for secondary screening.

The only way I will cease to have a problem with WBI is if the setup is like it is at AMS. There the machines are MMW only and do automatic analysis of the image. The screener and the monitors will display a cartoon stick figure of the person, and it's visible to everyone. But what's the point of all of this where if an anomaly on the scan requires a manual patdown anyway? I'd rather just opt-out and take the patdown I'd get anyway.

n4zhg Jul 26, 2010 7:12 pm


Originally Posted by Scubatooth (Post 14369730)
You should be careful how you approach that "making sure they dont forget that experience" as you may not like what happens. In my case you threaten me and you will be explaining yourself to LE amongst other officials including your airlines GSC. If the threats turn physical all bets are off as to what will happen to you.

Then there is also something called the first amendment aka freedom of speech.

And 18 USC 242 can be applied to private citizens who violate another person's civil rights. It's not just for cops/TSOs.

Don't drop the soap.

Scubatooth Jul 26, 2010 7:31 pm

That maybe, but if you assault and/or battery (depending on the jurisdiction) me I have the right to defend myself. I know this very well and last time i defended myself I was not charged and the person who assaulted me got the worse end of the deal physically and legally.

Italy98 Jul 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Post yesterday talked about ELP where there was no option "The U.S. Transportation Security Administration has blocked entrances to metal detectors. Officials now instruct all travelers to get in line at one of the three imaging detection scanners." :mad: :td:

red456 Jul 26, 2010 7:36 pm


Originally Posted by Scubatooth (Post 14370240)
That maybe, but if you assault and/or battery (depending on the jurisdiction) me I have the right to defend myself.

I could be wrong, but I'm not certain that is what n4zhg meant. I think he was referring to star_world's threat to stop another passenger from speaking his/her piece.

red456 Jul 26, 2010 7:37 pm


Originally Posted by Italy98 (Post 14370257)
Post yesterday talked about ELP where there was no option "The U.S. Transportation Security Administration has blocked entrances to metal detectors. Officials now instruct all travelers to get in line at one of the three imaging detection scanners." :mad: :td:

However, they have to have some option for those individuals who cannot transit WBI, so that statement would appear to be incorrect.

FliesWay2Much Jul 26, 2010 7:51 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369924)
Hmmm I doubt you do, as you and I differ on what we consider to be our "rights".

OK -- for the benefit and education of us all, please articulate clearly why you doubt I unconditionally support your right to free speech.

PhoenixRev Jul 26, 2010 8:06 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369962)
Why, many here claim that TSA is keeping even the image resolution qualit secret.

Not at all.

I simply think the TSA lies about it.

Superguy Jul 26, 2010 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14370056)
I do - but people disagree on what exactly that means. You know that. Do you and I hold the same beliefs regarding the freedom of speech?

Probably not, but I gather you have pretty restricted view on it.

Boggie Dog Jul 26, 2010 8:43 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 14369866)
Oh, i havent missed it. I wonder how much bad information is handed out, though. Isn't one of the complaints about the WBI and TSA that passengers don't have access to what the images are like and other SSI info?

Regardless of having people trapped and forced to listen, is what being conveyed nothing more than fear if it's based upon incomplete information?

Yes, just how much bad info has TSA put out about the WBI Strip Search Machines?

Why is TSA afraid to show the public real images from these devices?

Why is TSA trying to cover up the possible health issues with Backscatter?

WChou Jul 26, 2010 9:08 pm

3Greyhounds: This was in Terminal A. I do not have first hand experience with security in the new Terminal B. However, a recent article mentioned that SJC is expected have them in both terminals.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...bay&id=7492938

Majuki: The TSO was professional and did not go beyond the patdown and ETD check of his gloves.


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