Nearly refused entry by UK Border Agency because my US passport was never signed
Jun 26, 2010, 11:09 pm
#61
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
Does anyone who posts here ever ponder that approaching security agents with a chip on your shoulder isn't the most mature thing to do? Their job is to protect their country, whatever that country is. They aren't put there with the job description of "goodwill ambassador". Why in hell do you expect them to kiss your patootie? It seems not to matter what country does it to a traveler, they become evil incarnate. I'm glad I don't travel that way. Yeh, I could get pissed off AFTER something is done to me, though I'm not clear in my mind right now what that something is. But to be carrying that chip on your shoulder ahead of time, I mean, that person shouldn't travel at all. I don't want them to be in line ahead of me and poison the atmosphere for me.
In the meantime, perhaps someone will throw you a fish for 'not traveling that way'.
Jun 26, 2010, 11:48 pm
#63
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
Jun 27, 2010, 5:44 am
#64
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605
I'm not saying that it does. I'm not condoning or advocating the practice. I simply question the motives of someone who refuses to accept a card that says "SEE ID" because the card is 'not valid' since it is not technically signed on the back. So far, this thread has only proven my point; no one has a valid practical reason to reject such a card, so everyone discusses the advisibility, technicality and efficacy of this practice.
Fact: Photo-ID matching as a whole is no less effective signature matching as a whole in prevention credit card fraud. Fact: Accpetance of a card that says "SEE ID" with a matching ID is no less secure than accepting a card upon signature match. Opinion: Seeing an ID and matching it to a card makes it less likely that a petty thief (pickpocket) got a hold of a card and is using it before the owner calls it in missing, what I believe to be the majority of cases of lost or stolen cards used. Will attempt to find the facts to back this up. If my opinion is true, then writing "SEE ID" on the back of a credit card would seem to be the best way to prevent the majority of credit card fraud that would happen based on in-person use of another's card.
Jun 27, 2010, 7:01 am
#65
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,849
Does anyone who posts here ever ponder that approaching security agents with a chip on your shoulder isn't the most mature thing to do? Their job is to protect their country, whatever that country is. They aren't put there with the job description of "goodwill ambassador". Why in hell do you expect them to kiss your patootie? It seems not to matter what country does it to a traveler, they become evil incarnate. I'm glad I don't travel that way. Yeh, I could get pissed off AFTER something is done to me, though I'm not clear in my mind right now what that something is. But to be carrying that chip on your shoulder ahead of time, I mean, that person shouldn't travel at all. I don't want them to be in line ahead of me and poison the atmosphere for me.
Jun 27, 2010, 7:09 am
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,513
I've said one very valid, very practical reason to reject the card - THERE IS NOTHING TO CONNECT CARD AND ID. It also means that both the person presenting the card and the person accepting the card are breaking the T&Cs of the card and the card company aren't responsible if someone does use it illegally. So there's two rather good reasons for not putting "see ID" on your card.
2) I said practical reason. Small print is not a practical reason which I explained above.
So if the card says "J Smith", then anyone called John Smith, Jane Smith, etc etc would be able to use it - and I suspect these days that organised groups could knock up legal looking ID in a few minutes. After all how many people in Idaho would even know what Alaskan ID looks like, let alone know if it's valid or not.
Jun 27, 2010, 5:32 pm
#67
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The UK routinely accepts passengers with foreign passports that are not signed. In many instances, the UKBA has little to no choice but to accept the foreign passport as presented unsigned.
In place of where the signature of the passport holder would go, UKBA often runs across the words "not able to sign" or something of the sort in the passport.
The US and Canada also routinely accept such foreign passports that are not signed; and if those passports were signed, it could well be considered defacement of the issuing authority's property.
In place of where the signature of the passport holder would go, UKBA often runs across the words "not able to sign" or something of the sort in the passport.
The US and Canada also routinely accept such foreign passports that are not signed; and if those passports were signed, it could well be considered defacement of the issuing authority's property.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 27, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Jun 27, 2010, 7:43 pm
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: AA EXP LT GLD 1MM, BA GLD, NH/UA*G, Hyatt Dia, Marr Tit LT PLT, IHG Spire,HH Dia, MGM NOIR,Hertz PC
Posts: 10,571
Yeah, I noticed that I was treated better on average entering Canada as a US permanent resident. Once they did not open my foreign passport at all (GC was inside), and another time the CBSA lady officer did not even take passports from us, just asked if we had documents to re-enter the USA. On the other hand, entering Canada as a US citizen was not pleasant every time. But then CBSA and CBP are perhaps the only two agencies that treat visitors/citizens like suspected criminals.
As for OP, I do not even know why he bothered to open a thread about his experience. There is nothing out of ordinary in his case. But again, it would be nice if the signature was printed on the bio page just like in majority of contemporary passports around the world.
As for OP, I do not even know why he bothered to open a thread about his experience. There is nothing out of ordinary in his case. But again, it would be nice if the signature was printed on the bio page just like in majority of contemporary passports around the world.
Contrary to the US where the CBP officials are often on a power trip and the treatment of intl arriving pax depends on the mood of the day. My recent experience at US Customs YVR was a 3 hour secondary inspection where a brand new agent was trained by a senior officer. He told him to take his time until he understood everything correctly. Not guilty of any wrongdoing he said to him "look for proof to charge him with 212 a) etc etc..." What about assuming the individual is innocent until you actually find an anomaly !? In the end I missed my flight. They of course had no proof or even indication of any wrongdoing on my end. Complaining about this will end nowhere and exactly that is what pi**ses me off, that they dont have to jusity themselves against anyone. I made it now my primary concern since beginning of the year to absolutely limit any transit or travel to the US, not spending any excessive funds there.
Now one could say, let the european countries crack down on things like this. Do not accept modified passports with extra pages, non signed passports and deny the individual entry. However that would be just as wrong as these condition go back to the incapability of the United States to provide sophisticated documents (come on, who applies for a passport at the post office & gets it delivered by regular mail) and the general culture of ignorance.
Jun 27, 2010, 8:40 pm
#69
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
Contrary to the US where the CBP officials are often on a power trip and the treatment of intl arriving pax depends on the mood of the day. My recent experience at US Customs YVR was a 3 hour secondary inspection where a brand new agent was trained by a senior officer. He told him to take his time until he understood everything correctly. Not guilty of any wrongdoing he said to him "look for proof to charge him with 212 a) etc etc..."
Now one could say, let the european countries crack down on things like this. Do not accept modified passports with extra pages, non signed passports and deny the individual entry. However that would be just as wrong as these condition go back to the incapability of the United States to provide sophisticated documents (come on, who applies for a passport at the post office & gets it delivered by regular mail) and the general culture of ignorance.
And then come again to receive the passport in person? That is what I have to do in my other country of citizenship. The passport indeed seems more secure and durable, utilising a polycarbonate bio page with laser-engraved photo and the signature. I am not sure, however, that the quality would degrade if the processing was done through post office.
Jun 27, 2010, 9:17 pm
#70
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Katoomba (Blue Mountains)
Programs: Mucci
Posts: 8,083
However that would be just as wrong as these condition go back to the incapability of the United States to provide sophisticated documents (come on, who applies for a passport at the post office & gets it delivered by regular mail) and the general culture of ignorance.
Dave
Jun 27, 2010, 11:00 pm
#71
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MSY
Programs: NW Gold and now Delta Gold
Posts: 3,072
OMG I did this very same stupid thing. Fortunately I was caught at my home airport because I was going to the UK! The lady said, "um, you can't go forward because your passport isn't signed," and I backed up and signed up, and all was well, and we all had a big laugh.
My US passport was issued more than a year ago. I've used it to travel overseas and return to the US more than 8 times, never a problem.
Then.... I arrived at LHR and was told that I would be refused entry. The border inspector wanted to know how I was able to travel so many times(he saw all the entry/exit stamps/visas) when my passport signature line was blank.
To be honest, I hadn't noticed it until now. I admit that it is my fault for signing it. However, I'm wondering if they can actually refuse me entry if I didn't sign my passport right there at the counter? I did sign it in front of the inspector and said(edited to avoid confustion: I only said it in my mind 
) "there... you happy now?" He let me in and told me not to forget to sign my next passport... (8 years from now, I guess) 
Then.... I arrived at LHR and was told that I would be refused entry. The border inspector wanted to know how I was able to travel so many times(he saw all the entry/exit stamps/visas) when my passport signature line was blank.
To be honest, I hadn't noticed it until now. I admit that it is my fault for signing it. However, I'm wondering if they can actually refuse me entry if I didn't sign my passport right there at the counter? I did sign it in front of the inspector and said(edited to avoid confustion: I only said it in my mind ) "there... you happy now?" He let me in and told me not to forget to sign my next passport... (8 years from now, I guess)
Jun 27, 2010, 11:56 pm
#72
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605
OMG I did this very same stupid thing. Fortunately I was caught at my home airport because I was going to the UK! The lady said, "um, you can't go forward because your passport isn't signed," and I backed up and signed up, and all was well, and we all had a big laugh.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jun 28, 2010 at 12:46 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jun 28, 2010, 1:52 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: AA EXP LT GLD 1MM, BA GLD, NH/UA*G, Hyatt Dia, Marr Tit LT PLT, IHG Spire,HH Dia, MGM NOIR,Hertz PC
Posts: 10,571
It is troubling, especially considering that you are subjected to this kind of treatment on your own soil. Well, at least secondary inspection at pre-clearance areas should not be as intimidating as the secondary inspection in the USA. The worst thing for you would be being denied boarding and being kicked out of the pre-clearance area.
Would you prefer to show up in person at a local branch of the Ministry of the Internal Affairs to apply for a passport? And then come again to receive the passport in person? That is what I have to do in my other country of citizenship. The passport indeed seems more secure and durable, utilising a polycarbonate bio page with laser-engraved photo and the signature. I am not sure, however, that the quality would degrade if the processing was done through post office.
Would you prefer to show up in person at a local branch of the Ministry of the Internal Affairs to apply for a passport?
And then come again to receive the passport in person? That is what I have to do in my other country of citizenship. The passport indeed seems more secure and durable, utilising a polycarbonate bio page with laser-engraved photo and the signature. I am not sure, however, that the quality would degrade if the processing was done through post office.From your username I assume you are a german citizen as well !?
I prefer to have a secure and durable passport and gladly visit my Einwohnermeldeamt for this (which in our town is by far quicker than going to a busy postoffice in the U.S.) and pick it up there as well. The thought of my PP coming in the unregistered mail is not very comforting to me to say the least.Are you recieving them registered or regular mail ?
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jun 28, 2010 at 12:46 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jun 28, 2010, 2:09 am
#74
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, AA Advantage
Posts: 5,983
On my 1st trip to Greece I Was going thru Germany and my passport wasn't signed. Nothing happened the Agent just asked me to sign it and then we discussed baseball for a few minutes after that. lol....
Jun 28, 2010, 2:16 am
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: AA EXP LT GLD 1MM, BA GLD, NH/UA*G, Hyatt Dia, Marr Tit LT PLT, IHG Spire,HH Dia, MGM NOIR,Hertz PC
Posts: 10,571
When was that ? The cracking down & fines on these things is a development of the past 2 years and more of a little fightback against the US who is harassing European Citizens during the entry process.