Well, we know that TSA policies could not stand the scrutiny of daylight so go ahead and hide behind the so called SSI.

So how long have you been with TSA?

Hey, I'm the same lovable guy in person. :D

I said it all when I said that it was a contradiction.

I beg to differ.

My attitude/reaction to TSA (and i suspect many others here) is a direct result of the treatment we have recieved from TSA. Im a very easy going person but cross the line and any notion of civility or respect is gone. TSA lost all respect and common courtesy about 6 months after they were created, and there actions since they dont even deserve common courtesy.

Considering your previous statement about others "knowing everything" and "been around the block" and your own post in the "who we are" thread (see below), your showing the exact same thing considering your travel levels compared to most here.

6-8 trips for most people on this site and frequent business travelers (who are the ones who see the most of TSA act) are completed before march 1st. Due to the nature of my work and hobbies Im on the road a fair bit 1-5+times a month, averaging 2-3RT a month. My interaction with TSA is the worst part of the trip because of the equipment I carry since im traveling photographer and technical diver. I have had more equipment damaged during there "inspections" then by ramp personel throwing cases marked fragile. That and the rules being constantly made up and pulled from thin air dont help things. In all of my travel all over the world the TSA ranks dead last. Even the worst russians (think KGB henchmen) where nicer then the best TSA employees

Trust me you would have a different view of things if you had been on the receiving end of what i have had happen, including the most egregious incident where I had life support and photography equipment tampered with and damaged by TSA employees (and there's proof TSA is responsible). Needless to say criminal charges should have been filed as the "payment" for damage was a charlie foxtrot to get, as TSA played "victim" and stalled at every point.

That and I dont need keyboard courage to hide behind because TSA provides the ammo through there own actions.

I to would like to know how long you have been with TSA.

The TSA lied through its teeth regarding the capabilities of the WBI scanners.

You will forgive me if I tend to not trust them since they refuse to be honest with me about what the scanners do.

More than a decade? Do tell!

Hon, I ain't to spring chicken to living, and I've been bouncing around from place to place since before there even was any such thing as airport security. Six to eight times a year, you fly? Try six to eight times every two or three months - and my flight times are miniscule next to some who post here.

I didn't personally have problems getting through even TSA's clown gauntlet - which gave me ample opportunity to watch them posture and flex their muscles against confused elderly people, small children and the handicapped.

Some of those who post here, hon, think that they know everything there is to know about flying but, as someone who has been in the wild blue yonder more than a few times, from the left seat to the rear of coach, it's easy for me to tell who does and who just thinks they do.

~~ Irish

OK, tell me about the lies. What have they lied about? I got to see the new one's in use the other day as I went through OMA and they seem pretty simple to me. Crowded maybe, they need more space, but OMA has always been like that.


Oh no, I understand. If a government group lied to me I'd be a bit gun-shy too. But I have seen no evidence of it so far, only what the people here talk about. Lots of talk, no meat. I like a good steak (Med Rare) and Omaha has the best, so if you are going to convince anyone you have been lied to you should be able to back it up, right?

Deb

Wow, just because I don't buy into all the stories and ill feelings that everyone is selling here means that I work for TSA? Thats a very jaded view Scubatooth.

Maybe you could tell us all about how the TSA's have treated you so badly. Made you take off your shoes, no water bottle, maybe even they took you're toothpaste.

I read the rules before I travel and I don't have problems with the TSA's. Its that simple Scubatooth, but I suspect that you don't which is why you have such a 'tude about them.

Of that I have no doubt!:D But your name is weird, what does it mean?

Deb

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Great, another TSA apologist!

TSOs are constantly being rude, or worse, to the flying public... Such as:

Barking orders at us like we are incompetent of doing a simple task.

Pulling rules of the air, and claiming it's for National Security.

Not knowing the difference between 3oz and 33oz..

Retalliatory secondary screening when we won't reveal personal information to a high-school dropout.

Treating everybody like a terrorist:mad::mad:

The Attitude Problem - Perhaps TSOs could learn some lessons in Customer Service???

Shoes on the Belt, vs. Shoes in the bin

Just to name a few.

HAHAHA, she refuses to bow to the brow-beating of the "old-guard" here and she is now labeled an apologist? Thats rich.... :D

She said that her experience with the TSA has always been positive, because she prepares for her trip. Does that mean that you don’t bother?

Glad to have you here Deb, welcome to FT. An honest voice in the crowd may stand out, then again here it’s more likely to get drowned out. Don’t let the curmudgeons get you down, make up your own mind about us "TSA's" (BTW, its TSO's) and don’t let them tell you any different.

Ok, here we go again ...

1. TSA says "WBIs can't save images".
2. Critics look up the official specifications for the WBIs, as outlined in the bidding specifications, and find statements that say that WBIs must have the ability to save images.
3. TSA says "Oops, we meant WBIs can't save images during active use, only in testing mode. And it can only be put in testing mode by certified technicians at test facilities, never the airport."
4. Critics look up the specifications again, and find statements that say that all sorts of TSA folks have the capability of putting the machines into test (and therefore image-save) mode, including at the checkpoint.
5. TSA says "That's not how it really works at the checkpoint ... the specifications you're reading aren't really accurate ... but we're not going to tell you how they really work because it's SSI. Trust us."
6. Critics say "Wow, what a way to conveniently hide behind SSI when we caught you lying".
7. TSA says "Did not lie."
8. Critics say "Did too lie."
9. TSA says "Did not."
10. Critics say "Did too."
11. Paris Hilton says "Why isn't anyone paying attention to me anymore?"
12. Everyone else turns on Paris Hilton and forgets the original argument.

I think that covers the usual ground, right?

You might "read the rules" but have you ever stopped to THINK about them?

Please tell us why taking off your shoes makes us safer?

Please tell us how WBI, a virtual strip search, makes us safer when anyone can still hide contraband inside or in various places on his/her body and WBI will never see it?

Explain to us exactly why liquids greater than 3.4 oz. are such a danger to an aircraft.

About the only people who believe TSA makes us safer are those employed by TSA and government officials who are scared to death to be seen as "soft on terrorism." Anyone who can think logically knows that TSA is nothing more than a waste of our tax dollars.

The money being thrown away by DHS/TSA could be far better spent and save many, many more lives than TSA ever will if it were put towards health care or infrastructure improvement or education - any number of efforts.

Did you read the comments to the article about the 6 year old who is on the no-fly list? I suggest you do so - it will give you an excellent idea of what the population in general thinks of the TSA.

Nah, you forget the Strip Search images are ok for little children to view yet TSA won't show the images to prove it.

Well, that doesn't really fit the progression above ... and the arguments in play there are different.

jk give a good run down of the lies on one part.

However, let's not forget the WBI images.

1. WBI's are introduced and people express concerns about privacy.
2. Representatives of the TSA post on the agency's blog in April 2008 that the images are so innocuous, they are ready to grace the cover of Reader's Digest and could easily be handed out at preschools across America.
3. People ask for images to be posted in the same size and resolution that will be seen by the TSOs in the booths reviewing the images.
4. TSA posts images that are not the same size the TSOs seen in the booth.
5. In early 2010, a story breaks that a TSO is arrest and charged with assault and battery after attacking his supervisor who had been ridiculing the TSO for the size of his genitals which he saw from images from the WBI machine.
6. TSA issues press release and blog post stating they abhor workplace violence and are investigating. TSA does not deny that the TSOs genitals could be seen in the image.
7. Reporter for the Arizona Republic writes a story about the new backscatter machines being installed at PHX T4. Report notes that "genitals are clearly seen" in the image.

So, we were told early on the images were family friends and great for show and tell at your local preschool and then we find out two years later the TSA has been lying to us all along because the images were not ready for the cover of Reader's Digest and there is not a preschool in this country that would tolerate someone handing out images that show genitalia to preschoolers.

They lied.

Plain and simple.

Wow you are a TSA apologist.

BTW Ron -- you have no room to talk you have been called out so many times its not even funny. Im gonna hold my tongue because if didnt it would violate the TOS real quick.

Not to mention its been 3+ months where are the answers to the drug test? You said you could ID drugs by sight, so prove it.


Now back to the issue at hand; Its not jaded its simply whats happened and they aren't stories from others or articles there items that have happened to me or my travel companions independent of me asking. Considering Im (as well as many here) traveling many more time in magnitude then you do, i have alot more data points to back my claims.

well you obviously haven't yet to experience the rules being made up on thin air out of someone butt. I know what the rules are and because of reported rules from thin air carry a complete printed copy of the TSA website, the leaked SOP as well as about 150 other pages of documents to counter the shenanigans that get pulled. Prior to that the only documents i carried in my travel folio were the CBP documents related to the camera and technical gear i carry. I traveled for years prior to TSA and never had a problem(never had anything taken from my baggage either), and when the rare one did it was taken care of quickly, respectfully and professionally. Since TSAs dubious inception nearly 9 (especially the last 5) years ago there have been more and more problems due to there rudeness, theater act, unprofessionalism, shenanigans and have had items stolen from my bag, then the 20 years prior. Like i said in my previous post, even the worst Russian security is better then the best TSA station i have been through, and the guys in Russia were ex-KGB/mafia i suspect. Another data-point, since TSAs inception I have had 14 bags damaged/destroyed, when previously till TSA came around i was the same samsonite hardside roller bags featured in the commercials in the 80s. 6 months after TSA came about both had been destroyed. Coincidence, may be but since other bags have come up damaged/destroyed in similar manners I dont think so.

Furthermore you obviously havent ever had your personal property damaged and lively hood affected by TSA. I have had $2000+ lens i use to make a living with as a photographer(amongst other things) bounced on hard surface and destroyed due to a smurfs negligence. There was no squirming out of that one as to many witnesses including a two officers of the court (Lawyer). Even when they were clearly in the wrong it was a pain to get a settlement.

Also in the same trip had not one but 3 sets of scuba diving regulators damaged because TSA didnt bother to repack the bag the way they found it. The damage nearly cost me my life when they failed at 165'. If it wasnt for my training, quick thinking, and actions i would have been dead. Those regulators are life support equipment and in the state they were inspected in and damaged in, tampering with life support equipment that results in the injury or death of another the charges range from manslaughter to murder depending on the situation.

Then how would you like to have a you or a family member felt up "assaulted" (it should have been charged and to the sexual assault level) by one these "professionals" because of my grandmother alarming because of two artificial hips and knees. Im not talking the BS patdowns that happen now, but groping and manhandling a elderly lady. Great way to treat a member of the greatest generation that ever lived, who served on the front lines, and whose only crime was having artificial joints due to wearing the OEM parts out. If it hadnt been for my mother making a huge stink right then and there that would have been swept under the rug like a lot of TSA shenanigans. I personally was ready to clean that tango out of the gene pool but i was to busy holding back my father (her son) who if he had gotten his hands on this one, it would not have been pretty.


Lets see if you had these incidents happen and much more on a regular basis. If something happened <10% of the time i would call it a coincidence but what im seeing by the pattern of behavior/actions and lies by TSA that tells a completely different story.