N965VJ

Looking at the checkpoint capabilities, that's probably right. More resources wasted on things that are not a threat to commercial aviation:

reamworks

it's not only drugs they report. it's 'large' amounts of cash or coins. As someone who likes to collect US gold and silver coins and often buy them when I'm traveling, the scariest part of flying is going through the checkpoint

also, most of the time requests for a private search are ignored, and they don't understand my desire to keep the bag within my view at all times. I should be extended that courtesy

afaik they are trained to report to LEO any 'cash' over 10k, so they ponder my bags for a while at the xray and call others over to look at it. It's disgusting. coins are clearly no danger to the plane. let me board, and give me some privacy

I , for one, would much rather sit next to a known, wanted, child molester on a plane than sit next to a child!

DHS should not be checking outstanding warrants on people, should not be checking to see if pax are behind on their child support, etc. They should be keeping bombs, weapons off the plane, and look for specific people who are on a list. That's it.

Ari

Try Xanax. Or Sonata. Or both. They work like a charm.

Agree 100%

^ to PTravel's responses.

Clearly it worked-- look at Pgladb's posts: All paranoia and fear with the added bit about the close deaths on 9/11 as a justification for anything the TSA does, irrespective of its efficacy. That is the exact twisted logic that got us into this mess in the first place.

Wally Bird

What value does watching passengers provide ? Now if they were, in fact, detecting terrorists by use of their mind-melding talents you might have a point.

Definitions of stupidity vary; mine includes falling for TSA disinformation.

pmocek

If that's the case, and if as TSA would have us believe, these would-be criminals are in the United States, why do you suppose that not one of them has detonated a bomb just outside the areas TSA controls -- where hundreds of people are queued up waiting to enter? Or at sporting events, concerts, or anywhere else that thousands of people congregate?

Freedom of movement, and thus freedom of assembly. TSA requires us to request and receive permission from our government to travel within the United States by what is in many cases the only feasible means of travel.

Also, note that the public right of freedom of transit by air is guaranteed by the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Freedom of movement is also guaranteed by Article 12 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, a human rights treaty signed and ratified by the US.

Maybe the BDOs picked up on that, and maybe they just happened to take a large enough random sample that they found some of the many people who carry controlled substances via commercial air. This would be more significant if we knew how many false positives those BDOs pestered before coming across people with drugs.

PTravel

I do.

The "limited administrative search" performed at the checkpoint exceeded the Fourth Amendment until the TSA was curbed by Fofana.

There have been First Amendment violations described here on FT (do a search on "Kip Hawley is an Idiot"

In my opinion (and I'm a lawyer, something you're clearly not), the No Fly List, as administered, violates Fifth Amendment due process. As I understand it, some lawsuits are working their way through the courts, so we'll see if I'm right.

TSOs have seized property in violation of the Fifth Amendment.

TSOs have detained people in violation of the Fifth Amendment.

In addition to constitutional violations, TSOs have committed theft, assault (see the thread about the 93 year old woman who had her food confiscated), kidnapping (see the thread about the TSOs who separated a young child from its parent) and filing false police reports (see Phil's thread about his arrest in Phoenix), all of which are criminal acts.

Now, would you care to share your understanding of "civil liberties"?

Ari

Do you mean 4th or 5th?

Superguy

Just heard Rep. Mica on the news. He's pretty much said everything we've said on here. TSA is an abysmal failure, it's out of control, and a waste of tons of money.

Now the question is ... what's he gonna do about it?

pmocek

I think you meant Albuquerque, not Phoenix. See FT "Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID," along with blog posts from the Identity Project: "Traveler arrested at Albuquerque TSA checkpoint", "Albuquerque police still pressing charges against traveler who tried to exercise his rights" and Cannabis Defense Coalition: "Activist arrested at Albuquerque airport".

bocastephen

He's said some variant of the same thing for quite awhile - and has done nothing about it, nor has he attempted to build any consensus among his committee to beat the TSA over the head with a stick.

Of course I'll take this sort of political grandstanding over the crap that comes from Rep. King's pie hole.

reamworks

Ok! This is fun! I'll play:



On the left is a passenger confronting a seat squatter.

On the right is a Southwest passenger trying a proven strategy to keep someone from taking the middle seat next to him.

Spiff

You ought to study the difference between civil rights and civil liberties as your question asks about the latter, but you seem to be pushing it towards the former.

So, to directly answer your question, I have lost the civil liberty of traveling by plane without the sick, disgusting, un-American harassment of showing my ID to some government actor who should not be employed by the federsl government, I have lost the civil liberty of not being harassed about the liquids I take with me when I travel, and I have lost the civil liberty of keeping my shoes on at the checkpoint/WTMD thanks to some sick idiot pervert named Kip Hawley.

Civics 101 awaits you.

goalie

<cue music>
(to the tune of three blind mice (or the three stooges theme if you prefer )

see spot run
see spot run
they haven't caught a ter'wrist
they haven't caught a ter'wrist
oh, see spot run

Superguy

Hopefully now that he has some real ammo, something will be done.

Yes, I'm not terribly hopeful, but there isn't much out there to hope about.

PTravel

5th -- no person shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law.

Thanks for the correction. And best of luck!