CBS Evening News slams SPOTniks tonight
May 21, 2010, 11:17 am
#136
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What is it, Ari? Overwhelmed by the facts of the matter. Do I have to spell it out?
Abdulmuttalab got by TSA when he had no explosives on him!!!! Lots of people who pose no danger at all at the moment when they are being screened "get by". For those too dense to "get it", the job is to stop dangerous people who are armed to violate security in the air!!! The one time Abdulmuttalab fit that description, he was cleared in Europe! TSA wasn't doing the screening.
I just hope this isn't too complex a train of thought for people attempting to participate in this conversation. Those who can't follow it, maybe go look for something less meaty, more frivolous.
Abdulmuttalab got by TSA when he had no explosives on him!!!! Lots of people who pose no danger at all at the moment when they are being screened "get by". For those too dense to "get it", the job is to stop dangerous people who are armed to violate security in the air!!! The one time Abdulmuttalab fit that description, he was cleared in Europe! TSA wasn't doing the screening.
I just hope this isn't too complex a train of thought for people attempting to participate in this conversation. Those who can't follow it, maybe go look for something less meaty, more frivolous.
If you used the quote feature instead of just posting replies, the post to which you are responding might be more clearly identified. Since GUW's was the most recent post having to do with a specific terrorist, I assumed you were responding to his post which I believe to be a fair assumption. This confusion can be avoided in the future by using the quote feature when you respond. You are free to correct the record, however, and tell us you were not responding to GUW's post but to another post and indicate which one.
In addition, I believe my post which quoted GUW's post and your post in succession put you on fair notice of the exact nature of the issue I wished to clarify. You responded with a somewhat abrasive post that didn't address the discrepency but repeated stuff about Abdulmuttalab and didn't address Shazad which just adds to the confusion.
Again, all this confusion can be avoided in the future by using the quote feature when you respond instead of just hitting "post reply".
May 21, 2010, 11:19 am
#137
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And I'm not that old ... you may even be older than me.
May 21, 2010, 11:52 am
#138
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Blogger Bob and the Identity Project weigh in
TSA SPOT Program: Still Going Strong (TSA.gov)
Is “SPOT” a reasonable basis for suspicion or surveillance? (PapersPlease.org)
Is “SPOT” a reasonable basis for suspicion or surveillance? (PapersPlease.org)
May 21, 2010, 12:07 pm
#139
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Saying that the BDO program is a failure because it doesn't find bad people who aren't a threat to aviation isn't a fair criticism, because the BDO program was never designed for that purpose. Once we start playing the game of how many bad non-terrorists the BDO program does, or doesn't, detect, we're legitimizing the faulty premise in the first place.
We should focus on the core question: how many direct threats to aviation security have BDOs detected and averted? That's the only metric that should matter.
May 21, 2010, 2:24 pm
#140
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It wasn't a TSA failure since he didn't have explosives with him when he flew-- just ask LAF. 
They also missed him on his way out after the botched bombing-- you'd think he'd have been nervous then with the manhunt and all and exibited those telltale microexpressions, but the TSA didn't SPOT him. Alas, he didn't have explosives with him, so all is well.
They also missed him on his way out after the botched bombing-- you'd think he'd have been nervous then with the manhunt and all and exibited those telltale microexpressions, but the TSA didn't SPOT him. Alas, he didn't have explosives with him, so all is well.
About the failed "underwear bomber", it had been reported that the failed "underwear bomber" from Nigeria had entered the US before -- unsurprisingly, to visit Houston -- and exited the US quite some time before 12/25/2009. Last I checked Houston had "trained" TSA voodoo "security" personnel too.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; May 21, 2010 at 3:39 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
May 21, 2010, 2:48 pm
#141
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When he boarded his return flight to head home, he didn't have malicious intent anymore; his malicious acts were already completed. He wasn't trying to hide his identity; he checked in under his own name, and presumably showed his own ID. I'm not sure there was anything for a BDO to detect.
I think there are plenty of reasons to criticize the BDO program ... but I'm not sure this case is one of them.
I think there are plenty of reasons to criticize the BDO program ... but I'm not sure this case is one of them.
The precept of the SPOT program AIUI is that the BDOs are trained(sic) to pick out unusual stress demeanors. It's possible, as you say, that Shazad was acting real cool (cf. Atta) although he is reported to have been anxious 'they' were after him and said "I was expecting you" when arrested.
In either case - he was exhibiting no behavior to indicate anxiety, or he was and it wasn't picked up; it's scarcely an endorsement of the whole sorry program.
May 21, 2010, 6:50 pm
#142
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Anyone catch this?
PDF Page 64 (Report Page 57):
The TSA Standards and Evaluation Branch thinks that BDO's need more training with ICE, DEA and CBP. There you have it; mission creep in black and white.
PDF Page 64 (Report Page 57):
TSA Training Standards and Evaluation Branch Recommendations for Improving SPOT Training and TSA Actions on the Recommendations
. . .
Provide recurrent training outside of TSA (more Immigration and Customs Enforcement, DEA, and CBP training).
. . .
. . .
Provide recurrent training outside of TSA (more Immigration and Customs Enforcement, DEA, and CBP training).
. . .
The TSA Standards and Evaluation Branch thinks that BDO's need more training with ICE, DEA and CBP. There you have it; mission creep in black and white.
May 21, 2010, 7:35 pm
#143
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
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TSA action on recommendations
No Actiona
a According to TSA, the SPOT program office will determine if the recommended action is appropriate after the BDO job task analysis and training task analysis are completed.
No mission creep... yet...
May 21, 2010, 8:03 pm
#144
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,051
My contention is that TSA has not failed in what it is supposed to do. Their job is to keep airline passengers safe. No one yet has shown that the failed. Not one of you people with your imaginative evasions of the central issue has presented a single instance of failure. Your idea of a "response" is an eye-rolling emoticon. That's a grade school debater, not an adult response. I'm gonna take it for granted that if you actually had an instance, you would have presented it. You haven't. So you're just dancing around and hoping to impress someone. I suppose there are some that gullible, and that's their problem. I'm sure the TSA people know you've failed.
May 22, 2010, 6:44 am
#145
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If this is in fact true, would you consider it a TSA success? How about if a single item of this sort was taken through security by someone to test out the system? How about single items brought on board by several different passengers on the same flight being screened by the same TSA employee?
Is a 75% failure rate acceptable for these?
Tom in Perth, Australia
May 22, 2010, 6:46 am
#146
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Yeah, spell it out.
This voodoo program is a waste of money. Accomplishes nothing. Well, unless you consider spending millions and millions to employ unemployable people practicing witchcraft not wasting money. When you have screeners not knowing that 3 1/3 is less than 3.4, you have bigger issues than this crap.
This voodoo program is a waste of money. Accomplishes nothing. Well, unless you consider spending millions and millions to employ unemployable people practicing witchcraft not wasting money. When you have screeners not knowing that 3 1/3 is less than 3.4, you have bigger issues than this crap.
May 22, 2010, 6:59 am
#147
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Wouldn't they just merge them back into the ranks of TSA screeners? Just read that they lost 67,000 screeners between 2000-2008, so looks like they have plenty of turnover to open positions.
May 22, 2010, 7:42 am
#148
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My contention is that TSA has not failed in what it is supposed to do. Their job is to keep airline passengers safe. No one yet has shown that the failed. Not one of you people with your imaginative evasions of the central issue has presented a single instance of failure.
Some do believe the TSA should be catching drug users, pedophiles, fraudsters and other petty criminals; others think it should restrict its activities to "what it is supposed to do. Their job is to keep airline passengers safe (ibid)".
Safe from weapons, explosives and incendiaries.
May 22, 2010, 8:35 am
#149
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Originally Posted by Blogger Bob
For those of you not familiar with the SPOT program, BDOs are trained to detect behaviors that one exhibits in response to the fear of being discovered.
Whether there is anything for a BDO to detect in the first place ... well, I'll let wiser heads than I debate that one.
May 22, 2010, 8:39 am
#150
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