Arizona Board of Tourism re: identity documentation requirements for visitors
May 18, 2010, 11:17 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Arizona Office of Tourism re: identity documentation requirements for visitors
Forking an earlier thread which has since been closed:
Great questions. I tried to find out for you, but was unable to do so. I searched the Web for "Arizona tourism" and found the Web site of the Arizona Office of Tourism. There is no contact information provided on the site. On their site map I spotted an Identification Requirements page, and on that page there is a section titled, "What type of documentation is needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?", but in that section, there is no mention of any requirements, only the following:
So I used their "live chat" system to ask where to find contact information and about requirements for documentation:
While I was typing a response, they disconnected me. I'm a fast typist, and their system showed me when they were typing, so it's reasonable to assume that they knew I was responding.
I then e-mailed Kiva Couchon, the woman to whom Maria K. referred me, along with someone who seems to be her superior:
Yesterday, I received the following response from Ms. Couchon. She refers me back to the same incomplete information on her Web site that I asked her live chat staff about and that I referenced in my message to her (that which does not answer the question about requirements):
I responded:
I'll followup here with more information as it becomes available.
I come from a family that is brown-skinned. I was born in the US, and much of the rest of my family are naturalized US citizen. [...]
I would never think to carry a passport in my own country. I "sound" and "act" American, so perhaps no problem for me. What about my parents? They have accents. What about my grandmother, who would not even be able to ANSWER questions without a translator? Must she now carry a passport in AZ?
I would never think to carry a passport in my own country. I "sound" and "act" American, so perhaps no problem for me. What about my parents? They have accents. What about my grandmother, who would not even be able to ANSWER questions without a translator? Must she now carry a passport in AZ?
What type of documentation is needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?
According to the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of identification:
For more information about this issue, or to provide feedback, please visit http://azgovernor.gov/. For detailed information on the bill, visit the Arizona Legislature's SB1070 page.
According to the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of identification:
- Any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.
- A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
- A valid passport.
- A valid Arizona driver license.
- A valid Arizona non-operating identification license.
Code:
General Info
Chat Start Time: 04/28/2010 10:32:54 AM
Chat End Time: 04/28/2010 10:53:25 AM
Chat URL: http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/faqs
Referer URL: http://www.google.com/search?q=arizona tourism board&aq=t
Name: Visitor
Email:
Phone:
Initial Question:
Chat Transcript
[Julio] Hi, I'm Julio. How may I help you?
[Visitor] Where on the Arizona Office of Tourism Web site can I find
contact information for the Arizona Office of Tourism? The word
"contact" is not used on the home page at
http://www.arizonaguide.com/. There is no contact page at the typical
location, http://www.arizonaguide.com/contact. The site map at
http://www.arizonaguide.com/site-map does not include the word
"contact". I'm stumped.
[Julio] One minute please while I work on this for you.
[Visitor] Okay, thank you.
[Julio] http://azot.gov/section.aspx?sid=13&psid=0
[Julio] Its located on the bottom right hand corner under azot.gov
[Visitor] Where would I find a link to that page on
http://arizonaguide.com/?
[Julio] http://arizonaguide.com/
[Visitor] Yes, that's the site I was looking at. Is there any link to
AZOT contact information on that site?
[Julio] yes its located on the bottom right corner of the
arizonaguide.com
[Visitor] What text is linked? I was looking for "contact" and have not
found it.
[Visitor] Or are you suggesting that visitors to the site who wish to
contact someone would recognize "AZOT.gov", follow that link, then
search for contact information?
[Julio] Yes , I do apologize its not clear.
[Visitor] So there's no link to contact information on this site, just
one to the home page for the AZOT.gov site, right?
[Julio] Correct the contact list for arizonaguide.com is under the
AZOT.gov website.
[Visitor] Okay, thanks. Also, on the Arizona Office of Tourism Web site
at http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-...n-requirements, there is a
section with the following heading: "What type of documentation is
needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?", but the information that
follows does not answer the question, instead stating, "According to
the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of identification:"
then listing acceptable forms. There's nothing there about what
documentation is required. What documentation is required?
[Visitor] I don't want to know what's acceptable, I want to know what's
required.
[Maria_K] For more information on this subject you can contact Kiva
ouchon (pronounced "coo shawn") her contact information is
kcouchon%AT%azot.gov or 602-364-3724.
[Visitor] Can you tell me what documentation is needed in order to travel
to and throughout Arizona?
[Visitor] Also, what is Ms. Couchon's position?
[Maria_K] http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-...n-requirements
[Visitor] As I stated above, on the page you referenced,
http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-...n-requirements, there is a
section with the following heading: "What type of documentation is
needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?", but the information that
follows does not answer the question, instead stating, "According to
the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of identification:"
then listing acceptable forms. There's nothing there about what
documentation is required. What documentation is required?
[Visitor] I'm not asking what is acceptable, I'm asking what is required.
Can either of you tell me? Also, what is Ms. Couchon's position?
[Maria_K] There is no required documentation...... as long as you can
provide one of the items listed then you'll be fine
[Maria_K] Kiva is the Communications Manager
[Maria_K] Communications and Community Development
[Maria_K] If you have any other questions please contact Kiva she will be
able to better assist you
[Visitor] What happens if I cannot provide one of the items listed (i.e.,
what in this context does it mean to not be fine)? To whom, and under
what circumstances, must I provide one of the listed items?
[Maria_K] Please contact Kiva.
[Maria_K] Thank you for contacting the Arizona Office of Tourism. Have a
nice day.
I then e-mailed Kiva Couchon, the woman to whom Maria K. referred me, along with someone who seems to be her superior:
Code:
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:10:26 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
To: Kiva Couchon - Arizona Board of Tourism Communications
and Community Development Manager <kcouchon%AT%azot.gov>
Cc: Laura French - Arizona Board of Tourism Communications
and Community Development Director <lfrench%AT%azot.gov>
Subject: document requirements for AZ visitors: AZOT live chat refused to
answer, then disconnected me
Ms. Couchon:
Today, I attempted to locate contact information for AZOT and information
about documentation requirements for Arizona visitors on the Arizona Board of
Tourism Web site. Unable to do so, I used your live chat service to request
assistance.
During the live chat, Julio informed me that there is no contact information
on your Web site and referred me to another site where I could find it. When I
asked about documentation requirements, Maria K. repeated what I had already
read on your Web site and quoted to both her and Julio, told me that no
documents are required, said that if I had one of the "acceptable forms of
identification" I would "be fine" (implying that if I do not, I will not be
fine), asked me to contact you, then hung up on me.
A copy of the transcript as mailed to me by your service is attached and
included inline below. Can you provide the information I requested from Julio
and Maria K.?
-------- begin included text -------------------------------------
[removed; same as quoted above in FT thread]
-------- end included text ---------------------------------------
--
Phil Mocek
Seattle, WA
Code:
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 15:32:33 -0700
From: Kiva Couchon <kcouchon%AT%azot.gov>
To: Phil Mocek
Subject: RE: document requirements for AZ visitors: AZOT live chat refused to
answer, then disconnected me
Dear Mr. Mocek,
I apologize for the delay in our response. Thank you for taking the time
to send us this e-mail and letting us know your opinion on this matter.
I have attached a link for your review.
http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/identification-requireme
nts. This link contains information regarding travel information and
documentation for Arizona. We hope this answers your questions. If you
have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Arizona is one of the most welcoming, vibrant and diverse states in the
nation with exciting outdoor adventures, fun family activities,
rejuvenating resorts and spas, exquisite local cuisines, a variety of
shopping opportunities, and for history enthusiasts - a captivating
heritage.
Please visit, www.ArizonaGuide.com, to discover even more travel
opportunities within the Grand Canyon State.
Thank you,
Kiva
[removed quotation of my April 28 message to her]
I responded:
Code:
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:50:51 -0700
From: Phil Mocek
To: Kiva Couchon - Arizona Board of Tourism Communications
and Community Development Manager <kcouchon%AT%azot.gov>
Cc: Laura French - Arizona Board of Tourism Communications
and Community Development Director <lfrench%AT%azot.gov>
Subject: Re: document requirements for AZ visitors: AZOT live chat refused
to answer, then disconnected me
Ms. Couchon:
Thanks for your delayed response. Unfortunately, it seems that
you did not read my message to you before responding. As I
previously discussed with your staff (Julio and Maria K.), your
Web site -- in fact, the page to which you've directed me -- does
not answer the question.
Quoting, again, your live chat representative and myself:
> [Visitor] Okay, thanks. Also, on the Arizona Office of Tourism Web site
> at <http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/identification-requirem
> ents>, there is a section with the following heading: "What type of
> documentation is needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?", but the
> information that follows does not answer the question, instead stating,
> "According to the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of
> identification:" then listing acceptable forms. There's nothing there
> about what documentation is required. What documentation is required?
> [Visitor] I don't want to know what's acceptable, I want to know what's
> required.
> [Maria_K] For more information on this subject you can contact Kiva
> Couchon (pronounced "coo shawn") her contact information is
> [email protected] or 602-364-3724.
> [Visitor] Can you tell me what documentation is needed in order to
> travel to and throughout Arizona?
> [Visitor] Also, what is Ms. Couchon's position?
> [Maria_K]
> http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/identification-requireme
> nts
> [Visitor] As I stated above, on the page you referenced,
> <http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/identification-requirem
> ents>, there is a section with the following heading: "What type of
> documentation is needed to travel to and throughout Arizona?", but the
> information that follows does not answer the question, instead stating,
> "According to the bill, the following items are acceptable forms of
> identification:" then listing acceptable forms. There's nothing there
> about what documentation is required. What documentation is required?
> [Visitor] I'm not asking what is acceptable, I'm asking what is
> required. Can either of you tell me? Also, what is Ms. Couchon's
> position?
So again, I ask, what documentation is needed to travel to and
throughout Arizona?
[removed quotations]
--
Phil Mocek
Seattle, WA
Last edited by pmocek; May 18, 2010 at 11:22 am
May 18, 2010, 11:25 am
#2
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It will be interesting to see what info you finally wind up with (if you get a decent and accurate response).
Please note that SB 1070 is not even effective as a "law" until July 29, 2010. In the interium, at least three lawsuits have been filed in federal court seeking to enjoin its enforcement because it is unconstitutional.
Let's hope it never takes effect.
Thanks again for your efforts, Phil.
Please note that SB 1070 is not even effective as a "law" until July 29, 2010. In the interium, at least three lawsuits have been filed in federal court seeking to enjoin its enforcement because it is unconstitutional.
Let's hope it never takes effect.
Thanks again for your efforts, Phil.
May 18, 2010, 11:43 am
#3
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
If this weren't so annoying, this would read like black comedy, Phil. Good luck on any response from Arizona. I was reading their newspapers yesterday, where the statement about the fifth form of ID mumbled something like "and any ID legally issued to a citizen of another state in the union." Apparently, unless the dopey LE person knows precisely which states issue ID's to non-citizens, that would not include Driver's Licenses (I'm sure they all believe that California issues lots of licenses to non-documented aliens - and we probably do, come to think of it - but not because the DMV wants to, there are just so many ways of circumventing the system).
Further, I went to their site to see if they are excluding Permanent Residents or people with work visas from other states (and therefore traveling with consular cards), who don't have DL's from other states, no information.
I too am a brown-skinned person (and a person with a professional interest in borders, border economies, and who did a dissertation involving the Mexican boarder) who went down to Tombstone/Bisbee/Douglas the first weekend the Militia was organizing its big "volunteer" patrol movement. We watched them training, recruiting, setting up their camps, got to know a few, and I remain in correspondence with several southern Arizonans - who are beyond p.o.'ed and no longer remotely reasonable about what is going on in "their land."
While there, we were stopped by Arizona police three times, each time for no reason, just to check ID (but with some silly vehicular excuse, never given a ticket, just reminded to fix a brake light or something like that - turned out the brakelight was working fine). We knew better than to get out of the car to check right then (I've lived and worked along the border, was born in Pasadena, but one of my parents is Native, and I look like that parent).
This was the first time I was hassled like that in Arizona. Next trip to Arizona, stopped we were stopped twice, and we were in northern Arizona.
Last trip, we kept ourselves mostly on federal land or Indian land, and were not stopped at all. My non-white friends in Tucson are really concerned (and carrying their driver's licenses everywhere - none of them is connected to any form of activism). My friends from Texas and New Mexico are vowing to find other ways to drive to Cali or at least minimize driving through AZ (you've got to go through a few miles of it from Vegas), but that's ridiculously long to do.
So thank you for taking the time to press on with the cause against Arizona - it's been a long time brewing, the ideas are firmly in the heads of white Arizonans that Mexicans have taken over their state and are advancing the true border line northward at an alarming pace (that's the view of the vocal Arizonans leading this thing).
Further, I went to their site to see if they are excluding Permanent Residents or people with work visas from other states (and therefore traveling with consular cards), who don't have DL's from other states, no information.
I too am a brown-skinned person (and a person with a professional interest in borders, border economies, and who did a dissertation involving the Mexican boarder) who went down to Tombstone/Bisbee/Douglas the first weekend the Militia was organizing its big "volunteer" patrol movement. We watched them training, recruiting, setting up their camps, got to know a few, and I remain in correspondence with several southern Arizonans - who are beyond p.o.'ed and no longer remotely reasonable about what is going on in "their land."
While there, we were stopped by Arizona police three times, each time for no reason, just to check ID (but with some silly vehicular excuse, never given a ticket, just reminded to fix a brake light or something like that - turned out the brakelight was working fine). We knew better than to get out of the car to check right then (I've lived and worked along the border, was born in Pasadena, but one of my parents is Native, and I look like that parent).
This was the first time I was hassled like that in Arizona. Next trip to Arizona, stopped we were stopped twice, and we were in northern Arizona.
Last trip, we kept ourselves mostly on federal land or Indian land, and were not stopped at all. My non-white friends in Tucson are really concerned (and carrying their driver's licenses everywhere - none of them is connected to any form of activism). My friends from Texas and New Mexico are vowing to find other ways to drive to Cali or at least minimize driving through AZ (you've got to go through a few miles of it from Vegas), but that's ridiculously long to do.
So thank you for taking the time to press on with the cause against Arizona - it's been a long time brewing, the ideas are firmly in the heads of white Arizonans that Mexicans have taken over their state and are advancing the true border line northward at an alarming pace (that's the view of the vocal Arizonans leading this thing).
May 18, 2010, 12:02 pm
#4
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Posts: 1,781
So thank you for taking the time to press on with the cause against Arizona - it's been a long time brewing, the ideas are firmly in the heads of white Arizonans that Mexicans have taken over their state and are advancing the true border line northward at an alarming pace (that's the view of the vocal Arizonans leading this thing).
While Arizona's attempt at "taking back" their state isn't necessarily the best solution, one has to acknowledge that in some ways the state is at least doing its job by reacting to a problem that's affecting its legal, law abiding residents. I'm not wild about a "papers, please" society and think that Arizona's current implementation will likely be ruled unconstitutional-- but I'm willing to at least acknowledge that the state is finally responding to its residents and attempting to resolve a big problem. Their legislature just needs to learn that this isn't the appropriate way to go about ridding their communities of illegals, and that some better, constitutional, methods need to be explored instead.
May 18, 2010, 12:10 pm
#5
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Luvsparis, one side note here (and please realise I am not debating any merits or demerits of Arizona law and this does not fully relate to the OPs question)
US Permanent Residents (i.e. green card holders, 2 year intial or ten year, or the old indef) are required by the FEDERAL government to carry their green cards/LPR cards at ALL times and have been for years. This is clearly explained multiple times before and after the card is issued.
Ciao,
FH
US Permanent Residents (i.e. green card holders, 2 year intial or ten year, or the old indef) are required by the FEDERAL government to carry their green cards/LPR cards at ALL times and have been for years. This is clearly explained multiple times before and after the card is issued.
Ciao,
FH
May 18, 2010, 12:36 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
While [in Tombstone/Bisbee/Douglas during the first weekend the Militia was organizing its big "volunteer" patrol movement there], we were stopped by Arizona police three times, each time for no reason, just to check ID (but with some silly vehicular excuse, never given a ticket, just reminded to fix a brake light or something like that - turned out the brakelight was working fine). We knew better than to get out of the car to check right then (I've lived and worked along the border, was born in Pasadena, but one of my parents is Native, and I look like that parent).
May 18, 2010, 12:56 pm
#7
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I really want to know if I go for a walk or a jog from a hotel and leave my wallet in my room, they can pick me up and possibly deport me?
I am a citizen you know.
May 18, 2010, 1:07 pm
#8
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
I was reading their newspapers yesterday, where the statement about the fifth form of ID mumbled something like "and any ID legally issued to a citizen of another state in the union." Apparently, unless the dopey LE person knows precisely which states issue ID's to non-citizens, that would not include Driver's Licenses (I'm sure they all believe that California issues lots of licenses to non-documented aliens - and we probably do, come to think of it - but not because the DMV wants to, there are just so many ways of circumventing the system).
Race is not to be used as a factor in forming a reasonable suspicion about legal residency under the new law.
May 18, 2010, 1:11 pm
#9
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May 18, 2010, 1:12 pm
#10
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Ciao,
FH
May 18, 2010, 1:17 pm
#11
Original Poster
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Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
I'd still like to hear LuvsParis's reasoning.
I, too, would like to know that, and I'm anxious to hear what the Arizona Office of Tourism has to say about it.
May 18, 2010, 1:29 pm
#12
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It would be fun (though probably not advisable) to at the end of the traffic stop to tell the bluffing LEO that you have spare bulbs in the trunk, plan to replace the brake light immediately "to avoid the safety risk of driving with non-functional lights," and ask the LEO if he would mind sticking around long enough to provide "traffic protection" (i.e., cop car with flashing lights parked behind your vehicle, which I've seen them do for motorists changing a flat tire) while you swap out the bulb. Of course, the first step in this process would be testing all of the brake lights to see which one was "out."
May 18, 2010, 1:46 pm
#13
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I have lived in a few seriously totalitarian states. I have been ticketing in AZ for things I did not do, forced to pay at a police station (I am not from AZ) and had the payment record disappear. Other places where I have had analogous things happen include Laos, Afghanistan and Bulgaria. Just as in the others I would not challenge police without many witnesses on hand, regardless of their legal authority. These laws and/or practices (Maricopa County in particular) will be enforced with people who can and do overreact if provoked, and provocation might well be anything to and including DWB or anything similar. I applaud pmocek's efforts, but I really don't expect much. Remember the cops and much of the populace is armed. FTers are unlikely to have arms in their luggage, although some threads suggest some do.
May 18, 2010, 1:47 pm
#14
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May 18, 2010, 2:04 pm
#15
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These Arizona Office of Tourism contacts appear in the public domain, so they do not violate FlyerTalk Rules about protecting privacy:
Contact:
Mary Rittmann, Director of Trade and Media Relations – Mexico Market
(602) 364-3730
[email protected]
Jennifer Sutcliffe, Travel Industry Marketing Manager – Canada and the U.S. Markets
(602) 364-3693
[email protected]
Hylton Fothergill, Travel Industry Marketing Manager – European and Japan Markets
(602) 364-3706
[email protected]
Kristin Swanson, Travel Industry Marketing Specialist
(602) 364-3696
[email protected]
Loretta Belonio, Travel Industry Marketing Coordinator
(602) 364-3725
[email protected]
LuvsParis, four Calif DMV personnel were just arrested for selling phoney drivers' licenses. Not to mention, pretty good replicas are available for a couple of hundred bucks. Nope, I will not take any chances... I am avoiding travel to Arizona until this sorts out - at least. I have a right to travel domestically in the USA - this is not China with its permit system, etc. As a US veteran, immigrant and naturalized citizen, among other things, with a "Hispanic" first name, who has experienced profiling because of that numerous times, and who is unwilling to travel domestically with a copy of my passport, naturalization certificate or DD-214, they can put SB 1070, their usurpation of Federal authority and brilliant idea, the one law enforcement leaders were against, where the sun... er, you know.
And, yes, I have been to AZ many times (beginning in the 1940s), birding, camping, visiting some of the stellar museums and entertainment venues, parks, etc. but for now, no. Now the AZOT knows this from my communication with them. And we can rest easy and feeling secure knowing Timothy McVeigh, for example, would not have to worry about travelling freely in in Arizona if he were out and about (and alive).
Contact:
Mary Rittmann, Director of Trade and Media Relations – Mexico Market
(602) 364-3730
[email protected]
Jennifer Sutcliffe, Travel Industry Marketing Manager – Canada and the U.S. Markets
(602) 364-3693
[email protected]
Hylton Fothergill, Travel Industry Marketing Manager – European and Japan Markets
(602) 364-3706
[email protected]
Kristin Swanson, Travel Industry Marketing Specialist
(602) 364-3696
[email protected]
Loretta Belonio, Travel Industry Marketing Coordinator
(602) 364-3725
[email protected]
LuvsParis, four Calif DMV personnel were just arrested for selling phoney drivers' licenses. Not to mention, pretty good replicas are available for a couple of hundred bucks. Nope, I will not take any chances... I am avoiding travel to Arizona until this sorts out - at least. I have a right to travel domestically in the USA - this is not China with its permit system, etc. As a US veteran, immigrant and naturalized citizen, among other things, with a "Hispanic" first name, who has experienced profiling because of that numerous times, and who is unwilling to travel domestically with a copy of my passport, naturalization certificate or DD-214, they can put SB 1070, their usurpation of Federal authority and brilliant idea, the one law enforcement leaders were against, where the sun... er, you know.
And, yes, I have been to AZ many times (beginning in the 1940s), birding, camping, visiting some of the stellar museums and entertainment venues, parks, etc. but for now, no. Now the AZOT knows this from my communication with them. And we can rest easy and feeling secure knowing Timothy McVeigh, for example, would not have to worry about travelling freely in in Arizona if he were out and about (and alive).