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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Chased by a TSO! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1074936-chased-tso.html)

goalie Apr 16, 2010 6:25 pm
Originally Posted by doober (Post 13786670)
But 3/4 of the time, he doesn't have a clue as to what is really happening at airport checkpoints or at the gates.
true-but can we give the the 1/4 benefit of the doubt in this case as even a broken watch is right 2x a day ;)

eyecue Apr 17, 2010 8:13 pm
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 13784021)
This has to be a first!

I won't name the airport, but as part of a personal research project into TSA gate searches, I was observing their antics at a boarding gate on the way to catching a flight from a nearby gate. Edited to add: Please note, this was at a boarding gate - not the terminal checkpoint. When I was done collecting data, I did what I always do, which is to take a picture identifying the location and verifying the presence of TSOs, so that I can electronically match the location and date with the data I've collected in my mobile device. Unfortunately, I forgot to disable the flash and one of the TSO's at the jetway door saw me as I turned to leave. He shouted something (couldn't hear) as I walked away rather quickly toward my gate. Since my policy is to ignore anyone who shouts to attract my attention (unless it is advantageous to me to talk with them), I continued walking, but faster. I should point out, I was walking fast because I had spent so much time collecting data that I realized my flight had probably completely boarded.

As I turned a corner, I glanced back and the same TSO was running toward me and still shouting something, but there were too many people in the way. I was almost at my gate anyway. Because of the location of the wall and podium in relation to the jet-way entrance (around the corner), and because all the other passengers had boarded, I was past the GA and into the jet-way in no time. I stood inside the jet-way door, to see if he was coming but I didn't see him walk past the gate (my only viewpoint from the doorway), so he must have either given up and turned around or gone to the gate on the side of the corridor where there was a huge crowd gathered.

SO, my questions are:

1) Who the hell is the TSA to chase me down for taking a picture?
2) the two bozos that always hang away from the gate while gate checks are being conducted were closer to me than the tubby TSO. When he shouted at me, shouldn't they have helped their poor colleague?
3) Had the TSO caught up with me, my response would have been to continue to ignore him verbally except to say something like "if you feel a crime has been committed, please call a LEO". I just want to be sure that there is no such law as "disobeying a TSO", as I would never want to break the law of this fine country, unless I was involved in civil disobedience of some sort.
Interesting anecdote

pmocek Apr 19, 2010 11:14 am
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 13784021)
I won't name the airport
Why not? If you did, and the airport happens to be one of the 50 I queried about public photography last year, then we'd have some hard information about actual policy at that airport.

Originally Posted by clacko (Post 13784156)
i think that you are lucky....i think that barring pictures & phones in immigration/customs is valid & probably is against the checkpoint rules....
What makes you think that? It's a public place where thousands of people can observe and remember what happened, so why would anyone try to bar them from documenting what they saw, either with pencil and paper or with a camera? [EDIT: Answering my own question: One reason to bar such documentation is that if conflicts involving TSA misconduct arise, photographs make it much harder for TSA staff to convince others of their side of the story when their side doesn't match with reality. So other than CYA, why would TSA bar photography of public employees, public property, public space, and the public, in public places where public employees interact with the public, when many, many, people can and do see that interaction?]

Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 13784180)
The checkpoint is a public place, in a public building. Pictures are allowed. To my understanding, the only thing that isn't allowed to be photographed are the images on the monitors (like X-ray images, etc.) that are there.
That's unclear. Bob Burns told us on the TSA blog that photography of the monitors was discouraged, not prohibited, and many of the TSA people who responded to my requests for additional information confirmed this. Bob later said that such photography is prohibited, but despite numerous requests for him to do so, never backed that assertion with any facts.

Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 13784180)
If I'd been that person, and if the TSO had caught me, I'd have refused to allow access to the photo. I may have even denied that I was the person who took the picture. By the time they would have the whole thing sorted out, the photo would be uploaded to somewhere else, so who cares if it gets deleted from the device...
When images are deleted from a digital camera's memory card (and when files of any sort are deleted from the file systems of most computers, including digital cameras), the information is typically still on the card until it is overwritten by new images stored there. The camera/computer simply updates an index so that the place where the image/file was stored is available for reuse.

So even when images are "deleted", until new images overwrite them, you can usually retrieve them using the right software.

PhlyingRPh Apr 19, 2010 12:57 pm
Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 13801921)
Why not? If you did, and the airport happens to be one of the 50 I queried about public photography last year, then we'd have some hard information about actual policy at that airport.
OK. Rhymes with Gourd

pmocek Apr 19, 2010 1:06 pm
no restrictions on photography from publicly-accessible areas of ORD
 
On April 1, 2009, Barbara Hornbach, TSA Customer Service Quality Improvement Manager at Chicago O'Hare International Airport, informed me via e-mail that TSA at Chicago O'Hare is not aware of any TSA policies, local laws, state statutes, or local ordinances prohibiting photography or video recording of publicly-accessible areas of the airport.

TSORon Apr 21, 2010 3:46 pm
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 13802639)
OK. Rhymes with Gourd
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D

What gets me, totally boggles my mind, is the person that leaves one (1) shoe behind. One shoe! How can you walk off and leave a single shoe in a bin? Or on the rollers for that matter? And sometimes it’s a woman’s HIGH HEEL SHOE!!! “[P.A. system]Would the young lady that is bouncing up and down please return to the checkpoint and reclaim your shoe.” :D

wijomas Apr 21, 2010 4:15 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind?
"Hey, guy! Hey! The memory card fell out of your camera!" :rolleyes:

IslandBased Apr 21, 2010 4:23 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D

What gets me, totally boggles my mind, is the person that leaves one (1) shoe behind. One shoe! How can you walk off and leave a single shoe in a bin? Or on the rollers for that matter? And sometimes it’s a woman’s HIGH HEEL SHOE!!! “[P.A. system]Would the young lady that is bouncing up and down please return to the checkpoint and reclaim your shoe.” :D
Looks like there is a new, improved, extra optimistic TSA Kool-Aid formula...:rolleyes:

I hope the other shoe was planted somewhere, very very deep....:p

PTravel Apr 21, 2010 4:25 pm
Bravo! You da man! :)

Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 13784021)
SO, my questions are:

1) Who the hell is the TSA to chase me down for taking a picture?
No one. Photography of gates is not prohibited.

2) the two bozos that always hang away from the gate while gate checks are being conducted were closer to me than the tubby TSO. When he shouted at me, shouldn't they have helped their poor colleague?
Perhaps they knew what the first TSO forgot, i.e. that they are not LEOs and have no power to stop or detain anyone.

3) Had the TSO caught up with me, my response would have been to continue to ignore him verbally except to say something like "if you feel a crime has been committed, please call a LEO". I just want to be sure that there is no such law as "disobeying a TSO", as I would never want to break the law of this fine country, unless I was involved in civil disobedience of some sort.
Absolutely no law whatsoever. TSOs are not LEOs. The lack the power to arrest or detain. They also lack the power to demand an answer to a question. I like your proposed response. I would phrase is only slightly differently: "If you think there's a problem, please call a LEO."

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D

What gets me, totally boggles my mind, is the person that leaves one (1) shoe behind. One shoe! How can you walk off and leave a single shoe in a bin? Or on the rollers for that matter? And sometimes it’s a woman’s HIGH HEEL SHOE!!! “[P.A. system]Would the young lady that is bouncing up and down please return to the checkpoint and reclaim your shoe.” :D
I've had TSOs do this (return an item I left at the checkpoint). They did not, however, shout but, rather, said, "Excuse me, sir?" I've always thanked them sincerely for their courtesy in returning my forgotten item.

I'm pretty sure the OP could tell the difference between a helpful TSO and one bent on exceeding his authority. Apparently, two TSO colleagues could tell the difference as well.

Originally Posted by clacko (Post 13784156)
i think that you are lucky....i think that barring pictures & phones in immigration/customs is valid & probably is against the checkpoint rules....
The OP was at a boarding gate, not in immigration or customs.

would you be happy if the terminal was evacuated?....
It wouldn't have been his fault, but TSA's if that happened.

good luck w/ your research, but please refrain from activity which you know is bad form at least....
First, it isn't bad form. Second, not only is there no reason for him to refrain from his research, but he should continue it, as it is in the best and highest traditions of constitutional liberty. Remember that part about the right, "to petition the government for the redress of grievances"?

i just grin and bear it when faced with idiot like rules....
Feel free, if you want to see the Constitution disintegrate into meaningless dust. Just don't expect everyone to share your apathy.

Originally Posted by Ari (Post 13784704)
Double check that against local rules. TSA says always ok subject to local rules, but each airport can have their own rules depending on state and local laws.
Non-commercial photography is protected under the First Amendment. There are no lawful local rules against photography in public places.

ND Sol Apr 21, 2010 4:38 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints.
Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 13784021)
I won't name the airport, but as part of a personal research project into TSA gate searches, I was observing their antics at a boarding gate on the way to catching a flight from a nearby gate. Edited to add: Please note, this was at a boarding gate - not the terminal checkpoint. When I was done collecting data, I did what I always do, which is to take a picture identifying the location and verifying the presence of TSOs, so that I can electronically match the location and date with the data I've collected in my mobile device. Unfortunately, I forgot to disable the flash and one of the TSO's at the jetway door saw me as I turned to leave. He shouted something (couldn't hear) as I walked away rather quickly toward my gate.
As PhlyingRPh bolded in his OP, this did not occur at a screening checkpoint; it was a TSO at the jetway door that wasn't for PhlyingRPh's flight. What are the chances that a TSO doing a gate search for another flight would notice that PhlyingRPh left something behind as he was walking toward his flight? Slim and none IMHO. Why do you make almost completely implausible excuses?

VonS Apr 21, 2010 4:40 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D

What gets me, totally boggles my mind, is the person that leaves one (1) shoe behind. One shoe! How can you walk off and leave a single shoe in a bin? Or on the rollers for that matter? And sometimes it’s a woman’s HIGH HEEL SHOE!!! “[P.A. system]Would the young lady that is bouncing up and down please return to the checkpoint and reclaim your shoe.” :D
If there was a single high heel, it was most likely not returned to a carry on after the TSO was done rummaging through it. I have witnessed TSO's spilling the contents of passengers carry ons on more than one occasion.

Ari Apr 21, 2010 7:53 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D
As a reminder, the OP in this case was at a gate, not a checkpoint. It is possible he left something behind, but it wasn't like he was divesting items from his bags and pockets.

Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
What gets me, totally boggles my mind, is the person that leaves one (1) shoe behind. One shoe! How can you walk off and leave a single shoe in a bin? Or on the rollers for that matter? And sometimes it’s a woman’s HIGH HEEL SHOE!!! “[P.A. system]Would the young lady that is bouncing up and down please return to the checkpoint and reclaim your shoe.” :D
Waiting for the other shoe to drop, LOL.

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 13818479)
Non-commercial photography is protected under the First Amendment. There are no lawful local rules against photography in public places.
I don't know the law well enough in that area, but none of that changes the TSA's statement on the issue; what I said is what they said. I am not taking a position on the constitutionality of any local restrictions because I do not know the law well enough in that area, but just clarifying what the TSA said on the matter.

PTravel Apr 21, 2010 8:14 pm
Originally Posted by Ari (Post 13819550)
I don't know the law well enough in that area, but none of that changes the TSA's statement on the issue; what I said is what they said. I am not taking a position on the constitutionality of any local restrictions because I do not know the law well enough in that area, but just clarifying what the TSA said on the matter.
I know what TSA said. And it's wrong.

Global_Hi_Flyer Apr 21, 2010 8:17 pm
Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13818278)
OP, if you think about it maybe he was trying to return something you left behind? You would be amazed at the amount of stuff that gets left at the checkpoints. And I don’t work at that large a place. :D
Looks like someone has a reading disability. The OP was at a gate, not a checkpoint.

Do you make this kind of material mistake when you do your job, too? Or doesn't it matter because TSA screeners aren't held accountable?

PhlyingRPh Apr 21, 2010 8:28 pm
Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 13818479)
Bravo! You da man! :)
Thank you. I was doing what I do best, which is cause extreme and blinding irritation to assclowns. A number of individuals have experienced this feeling ;)

I just looked at the photograph carefully for the first time. It actually captures the chubby TSO who chased after me looking straight at me, so he must have seen me just as I was about to take it, rather than just after the flash went off. It also shows a second TSO, whom I did not notice at the time, standing at the other side of the gate looking directly at me with his arm moving as if he is about to point at me, and his face and mouth in a very unnatural contortion, as if he is about to shout. I now think that he is the one who shouted. The shout then caused the tubby TSO to reflexively begin the chase.


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