alaskamatt

This is how children develop self-confidence, aspirations, respect for their parents, and get excited about future occupations.

This man is a good father, and assuming that the child was fully supervised, made a sound judgment call. I'm assuming he gave the kid an extra mic or sat the child on his lap.

ATC frequently cancels or re-states commands (e.g. "flight level 1-3 ... correction, 1-4 ...") in the case of small mistakes. Complete non-issue.

bocastephen

He's not a two-year old wildly thrashing around and banging on the radar console - what hyperbolic speculation.

Instruction mistakes happen all the time - it's nothing new or odd when adults do it, so why should this kid be held to a different standard? He was well supervised, everyone got a kick out of it, and maybe the FAA will get lucky and hire him in 20 years when they're even more short on controllers than they are now.

I was driving tractors when I was 8 - nobody had an attack over that. I guess I could have lost control and smashed through a fence or careened through the barn, but I guess that could happen to an adult too....

PTravel

And the only harm you would have done was to yourself.

Show of hands: who wants to be a passenger in a commercial aircraft handled by ATCs consisting of 8 year olds, with adults supervising?

aviators99

Wrong...but anyway:

By the way, you could tell that the controller had his own headset on, and could have instantly corrected anything that wasn't appropriate. This was in no way any more of a dangerous situation than it would be if the kid didn't work the radios.

Btw, I'm the second person in this thread who was allowed to work the radios in an ATC facility when I was a kid. And I was allowed to do something a lot more detailed (this was 24+ years ago, when I was training to be a pilot). I loved it. If it paid better, I may have become a controller, just because of it. I even remember exactly what I said:

"Mall 212, turn left heading 310, maintain 2,700 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 28 approach"

dstan

You are extrapolating far beyond any evidence of what actually happened.

bocastephen

Good grief, more hyperbolic speculation - ATC consisting of 8yr olds with aduts supervising? When did this become plural?

Honestly - I could care less if a bunch of 8 yr olds handle my flight's hand-off from Tower to Departure Control - they could let a talking parrot do it, and it wouldn't make a difference to safety as long as it picked the right flight number and frequency. It's not exactly a critical instruction.

T-the-B

I'd like to address that point.

You are entirely correct about the differing attitudes exhibited here regarding TSA and other agencies such as the FAA. I'd like to explain why I hold agencies such as FAA (and their employees) in high regard and have nothing but contempt for TSA and its minions.

It is simply a matter of the agencies reaping what they sow.

In all my dealings with the FAA, be it tower operators, FSS, etc. I have experienced nothing but professional, courteous behavior from individual employees. Furthermore the regulations, although voluminous, are readily available and understandable to anyone who wishes to inform himself. (You can buy a bound copy at any chain bookstore.) Policies and procedures are uniform across the nation. Additionally, any reasonable person can see how each particular FAR actually relates to aviation safety.

With the TSA the regulations are secret. What is OK at one airport may well be forbidden at another. "Planned unpredictability" is considered a plus. Many rules have absolutely nothing to do with the mandate to keep weapons, explosives and incendiaries off of aircraft. Rudeness, unprofessional behavior, even criminality by employees is common.

In short, people respect ATC and other FAA functions because they are seen to be professionals performing a useful function. People do not respect TSA because they are seen to be a collection of drones long on inconvenience and harassment but short on beneficial effect.

The FAA's reputation is well-earned. So is TSA's.

N965VJ

^

I would have no qualms about being aboard one of the aircraft I heard in the recording, and judging by the amusement of the pilots, nether did they.

bowdenj

Great story - I happened to fly:

700p - 1003p
JFK - IND DL 6551

That day so that would have been cool if he handled that flight.

T-the-B

This is a big nothing.

The other week I had the tower give a call to another aircraft that he meant for me. I was in N322NH and he called N322DC which was also in the area. The world didn't end, nothing blew up. It was an understandable slip that I, the other pilot and the controller all immediately recognized. I decided to give it 10 seconds and then ask for clarification. Before that time the controller recognized what he had done and corrected himself. If the kid had said anything wrong it would have gotten fixed immediately with no danger to anyone.

Self_Loading_Ballast

The "cute kid" factor kind of clouds the issue here. It masks the stench of complacency that suffuses this story.

A controller who thinks its OK to divide his attention between watching his kid and watching traffic is a controller who has lost perspective on his immense professional responsibilities.

As a sometimes-pilot, I've read a lot of aircraft accident reports. Two kinds of accidents provoke an emotional response in me:

1. the scary accidents, where everybody involved did everything by the book as best they knew how, and they crashed anyway
2. the infuriating accidents, where someone did something they knew they shouldn't be doing, but thought they could get away with.

The controller's attitude tells me he's a risk factor for the latter kind of accident.

delayedinLGA

Sounds like he gave the correct commands and he was supervised, with a bit of lightheartedness. It's a but out of order, like you would not want all controllers to bring the kids to work, but why crucify the dad?

However, if I knew that all my conversations are recorded, I may have thought twice about letting anyone else on the mic.

Well said! +1

Aubie_NoFlyNoMore

I remember a documentary about a very famous crash that involved ATC "Communication misunderstandings". I think the exert below illustrates how a slightly misspoken sentence to/from ATC can quickly contribute to a disaster.
-----------------------------
Wikipedia exert -

Immediately after lining up, the KLM captain advanced the throttles (a standard procedure known as "spin-up", to verify that the engines are operating properly for takeoff) and the co-pilot, surprised by the maneuver, quickly advised the captain that ATC clearance had not yet been given. The captain responded, "I know that. Go ahead, ask." The co-pilot then radioed the tower that they were "ready for takeoff" and "waiting for our ATC clearance". The KLM crew then received a clearance which specified the route that the aircraft was to follow after takeoff. The instructions used the word "takeoff", but did not include an explicit statement that they were cleared for takeoff.

The KLM co-pilot read the flight clearance back to the controller, completing the readback with the statement "we're now at takeoff" or "we're now, uh, taking off" (the exact wording of his statement was not clear[citation needed]), indicating to the controller that they were beginning their takeoff roll. The captain interrupted the co-pilot's readback with the comment "We're going". As noted in the Nova documentary, the subordinate co-pilot this time chose not to embarrass his superior a second time and state they still did not have the proper clearance to take-off.

The Spanish controller, who could not see the runway due to the fog, initially responded with "OK" (terminology which is nonstandard), which reinforced the KLM crew's or captain's misinterpretation that they had takeoff clearance. The controller's response of "OK" to the co-pilot's nonstandard statement that they were "now at takeoff" was likely due to his misinterpretation that they were in takeoff position and ready to begin the roll when takeoff clearance was received, but not actually in the process of taking off. The controller then immediately added "Stand by for takeoff, I will call you", indicating that he had not intended the clearance to be interpreted as a takeoff clearance. He probably had not heard the captain's announcement that they were "going", since van Zanten had said this to his fellow crew members and not transmitted it on the radio himself... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

N965VJ

fs2k2isfun

In an updated article, it now appears there were 2 kids giving instruction. My favorite part was this quote from FT's favorite travel guru, Peter Greenberg:
link: http://wcbstv.com/local/jfk.air.traffic.2.1533423.html