Fun in the Northwest
 

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/...9-9793c2209445

i find this story interesting and noteworthy and surprising because of several points.

from what is described in the article, it looks like the chap will have to be deported from canada because he committed an offence (attempting to enter canada without valid travel documents) that the american border police obliged him to commit (by confiscating his travel document and thereafter sending him back across the border, to a country he is not a citizen of).

1. how can the american border police seize your travel documents on suspicion of fraud and yet not detain you while they investigate? it seemed to me that the two classic cases of problems at the border lead to either (1) detention or (2) being sent back whence you came, but with your documents.

2. i wonder how often this happens. theoretically the same situation could happen at an airport (although i presume the airplane companies wouldn't carry you back without a travel document) or at an airport pre-screening facility (thanks for your passport. it's ours now. go back there and get arrested now. - although those facilities are staffed by regular police and not border police of the expediting state.)

3. thought i would post.

al

Thanks for posting that. Interesting, and yet very disturbing.

Presumably he was allowed into Canada at least once with his passport. He also had the appropriate permission to stay in Canada for a year. So there must be records of these two facts in the "system".

This may well be one of those situations where having a photocopy of your passport would be convenient. I also wonder why he did not report his passport as having been stolen.

playing devil's advocate re. your first point: surely there is info in the system, and it does not look like he is being detained in canada at this point, he is free to move about, but has been ordered to depart the country as a result of his offence. i guess a practical problem would have been, how can they identify him without id? it looks like they did eventually id him since he was let in and imprisoned for a few days, so they know who he is. at the same time the deportable offence remains: he presented himself at the border without an appropriate travel document.

re. your second point, i doubt a photocopy would help. it is not a valid travel document. it is something that might help you with people trying to (theoretically) help you, like your own embassy ("let me in, here's some evidence i'm one of your citizens"). his passport was not technically stolen if it was confiscated. besides, where would he report it stolen? he is in no man's land, there is no police station there.

i guess he could have refused to leave the usa side until they detain him or give him back his passport (which by the way is the property of the french republic).

al

According to the news report it says his documents were confiscated by the American authorities, because they questioned the validity of the document. If this is reality, then it seems that it is the American authorities that have placed him in this untenible position.

As near as I can remember Bush didn't designate Canada as an "evil empire" so why is there an absence of diaglogue between Canada and US immigration. In fact if his passport is the property of the French Republic, according to one of the above posts, why are they not trying to recover their property?

Something stinks, and typically more so as you go south into warmer climates.

I can see just the same thing happening here in the US.

So why can't the US authorities verify the passport quickly?

Maybe France should repossess the Statue of Liberty, 'cause we sure aren't providing much in the way of liberty.

you would expect them to be able to call up the french and ask if the pp is genuine. if they suspect the picture has been changed, how would they do this tough?

i guess they could colour-photocopy the thing and send it to the french and they could see and confirm if it matches the picture on their files in their passport systems. provided they actually have the file in a computer system and not sitting somewhere in the physical archives of the prefecture de police. anything is possible.

al

They need a mechanism to avoid leaving a man without a country. Confiscating a passport does exactly that, and imposes great punishment on travelers that fall victim to such shenanigans.

indeed. i'm hoping yyzvoyageur will comment on the canadian procedure.

al

My feeling is there must be more to the story than what has been said so far.

Imagine a foreigner who is in Canada legally, as a student, on a work visa, or whatever, and who loses their passport while travelling outside of the country. Does this story imply that such a person could never re-enter Canada legally? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Where is the French consulate in Vancouver in all this? One would think they could arrange for him to obtain a new passport.

the problem is that he didn't just lose his passport. it was confiscated and thereafter he was put in a no-man's-land zone. so there is no way he can report a lost/stolen passport between the usa and the canada border, nor get a new one from a french consulate.

now that he is back in canada, surely the french will give him new travel documents, which will allow the canadians to deport him. o tempora...

al

It sounds like he was judged inadmissible under section 41 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act which is inadmissibility for non-compliance with the Act (in this case, for not having a passport). Officers are expected to take into account the person's actions, character, intent, and other equally important factors that led to the person's contravention of the law before deciding on an enforcement action. If he had his legitimate passport confiscated by a foreign authority through no fault of his own, this would certainly be a mitigating factor. An inadmissibility report followed by an exclusion order was not the only option they had. A temporary resident permit could have been issued. It would surprise me if there was not more to this story; it doesn't make much sense to me.

thanks for your input yyzvoyageur. it's true that it would be nice to know if maybe there's more to the story. it seems like most of its web-presence stems from the same news story. i did read in french on yahoo quebec though that the french consulate did confirm the validity of the passport. however, they didn't say when, and to whom.

while somehow what the canadians did still make sense and seems to be by the book, what i find really amazing is what the americans did. what if the canadians simply hadn't let the chap in? would he be in the border no-man's-land forever?
i would like to know if there are other instances of the american border cops confiscating papers and then just leaving people standing there.

al

i was able to find a little bit more info on this french local newspaper:

http://www.midilibre.com/articles/20...o-1086113.php5

new points mentioned:

« C’est pourtant avec ce passeport que j’ai obtenu mon visa canadien. Je l’ai même utilisé pour entrer trois fois aux Etats-Unis. On m’a dit que le document allait subir un examen de fraude. On ne me l’a toujours pas rendu. »

i was told the document would be checked for authenticity. i still haven't received it back.

« A Vancouver, on m’a fait signer un avis d’expulsion avant de me conduire à la prison de Surrey où je suis resté trois jours », poursuit le Montpelliérain qui a du mal à admettre ce qui se passe, surtout lorsqu’on le conduit, pieds et mains menottés, jusqu’à l’aéroport. « Je crois qu’ils voulaient m’expulser mais mon avocat est parvenu à faire annuler la procédure. Durant le transfert, les policiers ont égaré l’un de mes bagages. Il y avait à l’intérieur mon téléphone portable, mon portefeuille, les clés de l’appartement de Vancouver. »

in vancouver i was made to sign an expulsion notice before being brought to the surrey prison where i remained for three days, says the montpellier native who has a hard time understanding what is going on, especially when he is brought, hands and feet shackled, to the airport. i believe they wanted to deport me but my lawyer was able to annul the procedure. during the transfer the police lost one of my pieces of luggage. in there were my cellphone, my wallet, my flatkeys in vancouver.

Guillaume Carabin doit à nouveau comparaître aujourd’hui devant un juge de Vancouver.

he will be presented to a judge today again. (jan 25).

___

at least the canadians are showing him to a judge at this point!

i'm also hoping somebody with more knowledge from the american side could comment on this! who is the yyzvoyageur of the cbp force?

al

i was able to find some more. according to this article the reason behind the whole debacle is:

"Interrogés, les services canadiens des frontières ont refusé de commenter l'affaire, affirmant avoir agi dans le cadre de leurs procédures réglementaires, permettant notamment d'arrêter des étrangers si un doute pèse sur leur identité."

the canadians said they acted appropriately since they are allowed to arrest foreigners if there is any doubt about their identity.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international...du-canada-.php

i guess that explains the arrest and so on but it's still some pretty strong medicine. it seems to me that there are few situations where one could have absolutely no doubt about a foreigners identity.

btw, it's not clear if the guy is still in canada or not.

al

thinking about this some more: i always assumed that, in a land border crossing, you were considered to not really have left the country you are coming from until you have been admitted to the next country. if that is not the case, you could conceive cases where someone (for example a single-entry visa holder) departs, is then refused entry to the next country, and in theory stuck forever in the no-man's-land between borders... yea/nay? how does it look?

thanks.
al