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-   -   "Unpredictable Security" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1033978-unpredictable-security.html)

FormerDeltaMan Dec 31, 2009 2:36 pm

"Unpredictable Security"
 
Hi,

The TSA says it's moving to "unpredictable security" to make it harder for terrorists to game the system. I've heard fairly little discussion on how that works or whether it's a good idea.

This article http://www.crypto.com/blog/random/ by a computer scientist / game theorist named Matt Blaze (he's big in crypto, similar to Bruce Schneider, but less famous outside) argues that it's a bad idea.

I'm a chemical engineer by trade, and I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion, but the analysis of how to approach the problem is interesting.

FWIW.

FormerDeltaMan, now flying AA

tev9999 Dec 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Unpredictable security = "We don't know what we are doing, and even if we did, we can't do it right. Since you don't know what we are supposed to be doing, we will say we are doing what we are supposed to and you won't know any better. Its about the layers."

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 4:10 pm


Originally Posted by tev9999 (Post 13088712)
Unpredictable security = "We don't know what we are doing, and even if we did, we can't do it right. Since you don't know what we are supposed to be doing, we will say we are doing what we are supposed to and you won't know any better. Its about the layers."

Well that summed it up nicely, good job. ^

IslandBased Dec 31, 2009 4:30 pm


Originally Posted by tev9999 (Post 13088712)
Unpredictable security = "We don't know what we are doing, and even if we did, we can't do it right. Since you don't know what we are supposed to be doing, we will say we are doing what we are supposed to and you won't know any better. Its about the layers."

The layers- my local farm stand has them too- fresh eggs are the best.:D

Not sure about TSA, but the chickens do have a long history of doing what they are supposed to do.:p

iquitos Dec 31, 2009 4:57 pm


Originally Posted by tev9999 (Post 13088712)
Unpredictable security = "We don't know what we are doing, and even if we did, we can't do it right. Since you don't know what we are supposed to be doing, we will say we are doing what we are supposed to and you won't know any better. Its about the layers."

brilliant. they do't always know what they are supposed to be doing either.

Mats Dec 31, 2009 6:11 pm

I find this condescending. The TSA is so obviously aiming for damage control, and the "unpredictable" plan is a thinly-veiled cover-up. I say "condescending" because the TSA is acting as if nobody can see through their incompetence.

senseker Dec 31, 2009 6:48 pm


Originally Posted by Mats (Post 13089220)
I find this condescending. The TSA is so obviously aiming for damage control, and the "unpredictable" plan is a thinly-veiled cover-up. I say "condescending" because the TSA is acting as if nobody can see through their incompetence.

We've been doing unpredictable screening for a long time. It's nothing new.

N965VJ Dec 31, 2009 6:58 pm


Originally Posted by senseker (Post 13089332)
We've been doing unpredictable screening for a long time. It's nothing new.

Yep.

"Some airports do, some airports don’t. Each airport is different."

EDIT: Welcome to FlyerTalk, FormerDeltaMan!

Mats Dec 31, 2009 7:11 pm

I'm aware of the long history of "unpredictable" programs. I just think it's a convenient way to say "we're inconsistent because we don't know what we're doing."

bdschobel Dec 31, 2009 8:06 pm

No doubt. Unfortunately, Ma and Pa Kettle really do believe, all too often, that the vagaries of TSA screening are intentional. You can fool some of the people all of the time....

Bruce

DiamondsAren'tForever Dec 31, 2009 8:50 pm

I knew I should have finished the GED
 
U.S. Department of Transportation
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Screener Employment Eligibility Requirements
December 19, 2001


When the TSA takes over the responsibility for passenger screening operations all newly hired screeners must:

* Possess a high school diploma or general education diploma or have one year of any type of work experience that demonstrates the applicant's ability to perform the work of the position.


...

Maybe I can still get in on that one year of actual work experience thing :)

Seriously, it seems pretty clear there is a mismatch between the professionalism we want TSA to bring to the job, and the requirements for becoming a TSO in the first place. Of course not all TSO's - there's bound to be a college graduate in there somewhere.

stupidhead Jan 1, 2010 1:18 am


Originally Posted by DiamondsAren'tForever (Post 13089711)
U.S. Department of Transportation
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Screener Employment Eligibility Requirements
December 19, 2001


When the TSA takes over the responsibility for passenger screening operations all newly hired screeners must:

* Possess a high school diploma or general education diploma or have one year of any type of work experience that demonstrates the applicant's ability to perform the work of the position.


...

Maybe I can still get in on that one year of actual work experience thing :)

Seriously, it seems pretty clear there is a mismatch between the professionalism we want TSA to bring to the job, and the requirements for becoming a TSO in the first place. Of course not all TSO's - there's bound to be a college graduate in there somewhere.

Well I'm pretty sure a large majority of TSA agents were C or D students in both high school and university. They attract the same caliber of students as McDonald's.

PhoenixRev Jan 1, 2010 11:33 am

The "unpredictable security" mantra is now a catch-all when you challenge the TSA.

In the thread on shoes in or out of the bins, I asked why there wasn't a directive sent to each airport stating the shoes are either all on the belts or in the bins and then everyone would be on the same page. A retort from a TSO said that it was designed that way for the unpredictability factor.

Right.

Because Al Qaida operatives are sitting somewhere thinking, "If only our shoes had been IN the bins, we would have succeeded in blowing up the plane."

stupidhead Jan 1, 2010 11:38 am

Unpredictable my .... TSA embodies the words "arbitrary, capricious, and unreasonable."

n4zhg Jan 1, 2010 11:55 am


Originally Posted by stupidhead (Post 13092087)
Unpredictable my .... TSA embodies the words "arbitrary, capricious, and unreasonable."

And those are the kind words.


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