FOIA request for rules TSA requires passengers follow at airport checkpoint; advice?
Dec 6, 2009, 8:58 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FrostByte Falls, Mn
Programs: Holiday Inn Plat NW gold AA gold
Posts: 2,157
You da man!! I bow before your awesome research abilities.
Direct link PDF warning.
I have already saved a copy in case they decide to pull the PDF.
Direct link PDF warning.
I have already saved a copy in case they decide to pull the PDF.
Dec 6, 2009, 9:04 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
Dec 6, 2009, 9:16 pm
#34
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Diamond (MM), Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 873
Dec 6, 2009, 9:20 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Dec 6, 2009, 9:35 pm
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
pmocek,
It's a good weekend, isn't it?
http://cryptome.org/tsa-screening.zip a good enough start with or without the FOIA request?
It's a good weekend, isn't it?
http://cryptome.org/tsa-screening.zip a good enough start with or without the FOIA request?
Dec 6, 2009, 10:02 pm
#38
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: United
Posts: 2,710
-Mike
Dec 7, 2009, 10:39 am
#39
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: PHX & PPT
Programs: DL PM, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold, AmExPlat
Posts: 833
Dec 7, 2009, 12:14 pm
#40
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Dec 7, 2009, 3:29 pm
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
I don't follow your logic. You wrote that because a document details how thousands of our public employees are supposed to perform the job we pay them to do for us -- a job that involves their interaction with us -- the federal agency that oversees those employees would be hesitant to let us see the document. What makes you think that?
Dec 8, 2009, 6:39 am
#42
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 93
At the agency I'm most familiar with, FOIAs asking for "all" documents relating to X or Y are not denied outright unless it is so voluminous as to be absurd/burdensome, in which case the agency should call the requester to narrow the request, rather than just deny it.
Dec 8, 2009, 7:45 am
#43
Join Date: May 2008
Location: BOS
Programs: TSA TSO
Posts: 455
I don't follow your logic. You wrote that because a document details how thousands of our public employees are supposed to perform the job we pay them to do for us -- a job that involves their interaction with us -- the federal agency that oversees those employees would be hesitant to let us see the document. What makes you think that?
No, because of course, it will be released to you anyways under FOIA, but it will be a lengthy process because it's going to go under a nice amount of overview and what needs to be redacted from public view and IMO, it's alot.
Dec 8, 2009, 9:09 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
I don't follow your logic. You wrote that because a document details how thousands of our public employees are supposed to perform the job we pay them to do for us -- a job that involves their interaction with us -- the federal agency that oversees those employees would be hesitant to let us see the document. What makes you think that?
No, because of course, it will be released to you anyways under FOIA, but it will be a lengthy process because it's going to go under a nice amount of overview and what needs to be redacted from public view and IMO, it's alot.
You may have hinted at your reasoning. Is it the description of how to perform a pat-down of someone or that of how to search a bag being included in the job description that makes you think the employer would naturally want to keep the job description in the hands of thousands of lowest-level employees, but hidden from the public who employ those people? I don't think that pat-down and bag searching procedures are particularly sensitive information. In fact, I don't think that anything shared with the thousands of people TSA already shares information like that which we're discussing is shared -- people who turn over at nearly 50% per year, if I remember correctly -- should be considered any more secret than, say, McDonald's french frying procedures. It would be very easy for anyone who wants to know how to pat someone down for weapons, search someone's luggage, or make fries to A) guess how it's done, B) convince a TSA or McDonald's employee or ex-employee to share the information, or C) pick up the copy of TSA or McDonald's SOP manual that is left sitting around at the checkpoint or restaurant and read it.
So, can you please explain what it is about the fact that a document describes how all these TSA airport bag checkers and people searchers are supposed to do their job makes you assume that TSA would be hesitant to allow the general public to see that document?
Dec 8, 2009, 8:43 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
FliesWay2Much is correct. The more you tailor your request, the better your chances. That said, I wouldn't expect much. Francine the Googling lawyer and her subordinates easily ignore the laws that govern our country. The other day I had the opportunity to discuss TSA with a senior DHS person, and asked him when the Department was going to step in and provide some adult leadership, now that TSA had suffered yet another embarrassing court defeat. Specifically, I said, "are you guys going to wait until TSA has been spanked in every District Court in the country before you act?" His response was that unless Napolitano weighs in, probably not. He said lower level DHS personnel have pointed out to TSA management that they aren't exactly building a stellar track record in the courts, and Francine et al simply don't care - they believe they can do just about anything they want in the guise of "protecting" America.
Halls, think this same senior DHS person would give you the same answer today?