Safety of Lima
 

Hello,
I just found this website, I hope my question is something that someone here can help me with.
My teenaged daughter is interested in going to Lima for 12 days with a large group of people for an evangelical mission trip. They would be going to neighborhoods in Lima and interacting with the local people, teaching about religion. They plan to go in the summer of 2008. They will be traveling only on chartered transportation once they land in Lima. They are to stay at the "El Pueblo Conference Center".

We are from the USA, and she has never traveled without us before. While I admire her desire to do this, I am extremely hesitant to let her go. Should I be? If you have spent time in Lima, would you let your child go?

I thank you for any help, opinions, feedback that you can give.

I would not.

As I have two daughters I fully understand your concern. You said that your daughter would be part of a large group, so perhaps the most important factor to consider is how comfortable you feel with the level of supervision by the older members of the group. Not necessarily supervision of the teenagers but monitoring the whole environment. This could be a wonderful experience but you must be confident that your daughter and the other kids will be adequately protected.

I was in Lima for a week 2 years ago with two other friends we were 23 all males but we found Lima very safe. We felt safer on the Subway than in some parts of the US and the UK! We walked around the city many times and never had a problem. We went through one unfriendly area that I would not like to push my luck by walking through there again but all cities in the world have these areas.

I think you should let your daughter go. If she is in a group I am sure they will be well looked after and it would be a fantastic opportunity.

Where in Lima?

Lima varies from slums to upper class play grounds. How safe depends on where.

Lima does not have a subway.

To the OP: If this group has experience in Lima I think it will be a good experience. What I found intimidating in Lima the first time was that the scenery was a drastic change from what we are used to in the USA. Disrespectful drivers, panhandlers, and just the sight of poverty are some examples. If your child knows what to expect she may get over the initial culture shock quickly and end up having a great time.

True, there are some areas of Lima that even I don't venture to. I am sure the group would avoid them as well.

Otherwise your daughter will most likely find that the Peruvian people are warm and friendly and will probably appreciate the experience of knowing her just as much as she will appreciate her time there.

By the way... July 2008 is winter there.

Thank you for all of your feedback!

Which neighborhoods? None are specifically stated, I will ask. What it says right now is they will go to: parks, schools, open-air markets, slums (!!), orphanages.

Part of me would love for her to have this experience, but another part of me is fearful. If it was me with this opportunity, I would not go, but I am like that. Knowing this about me, I don't want to pass on my fear to her.

I wish I had a crystal ball...

Thank you!

Actually Lima does have a subway, or rather a light rail system, in the south of the city. It's a small system which if I recall correctly connects Chorrillos (or maybe part of Surco?) with Villa El Salvador. It may be the "rump" of the system that Alan García's '80s gov't was building, the unfinished bits of which are still visible along Av. Aviación. Anyway, it's not an area where a lot of gringos go so I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it.

To the OP: The El Pueblo conference center is very secure, and a nice place, although food service is a bit dated. As noted above, the rest of Lima varies a lot, from safe and secure to downright dangerous. That said, as long as security is being planned appropriately, she'll be pretty safe, and I'm sure the visit will be a great experience for her. Who knows perhaps she'll even come home a Catholic?:p

Maybe you do have one, sort of: email you consular people in Peru and tell them your teenage daughter is plannig to join an evangelical mission to the slums of Lima, and ask their opinion. See what they say.

The earlier post said Subway, not subway. I gather he/she meant the restaurant.

S/he said "On the Subway", so unless they were eating on the roof, they were talking about some sort of public transportation. :)

There is no such thing as totally safe when traveling, but if it's with a group, I think it would be a good experience.

I've have been to some of the worst parts in Lima all by myself, and haven't had any problems. However, always during the day, and I always carried very little in the way of valuables.

If you daughter is 16 years or older, I'd say go for it.

Slums? Not a good idea
 

I go to Lima very frequently, and I'm aware of the safety situation. As noted by other posters, some areas in Lima are as safe as any safe neighborhood in the US. But some areas (which, BTW are not too far off) may be extremely dangerous.

That said, the El Pueblo resort is a really nice, upscale place. But you mentioned that her religious group plans to visit slums. Slums in developing countries, and Peru is no exception, can be tremendously depressing. Some slums may be relatively safe, but do you really want your daughter to be exposed to the sights of abject squalor? This can be very, very shocking to her, and I can't emphasize this point enough. I'm an adult guy with life experience, and I think I would be shocked and depressed if I had to see extreme poverty in person.

One smart post above asks how comfortable you feel about the group itself. This is very important. Remember the girl who disappeared in Aruba a few years back? It turned out that the group "chaperones" had a very relaxed and hands-off approach to chaperoning. You don't want that.

I may be terribly wrong, but sometimes I feel that religious missionaries believe that they are somehow protected from crime by divine powers. I don't think so.

Finally, do you think it's OK to go to a Catholic country to try to convince people to switch to your religion? If your targets are poor, and you bring valuable gifts (valuable to them), aren't you abusing your position? Perhaps if the slum dwellers were not so poor, they'd tell you to beat it and respect their religion.

If you want to talk some more, please feel free to send me a PM. But in short, I recommend against this trip.

You're absolutely right! Why do people capitalize the wrong letters?

It's true that portions of Lima had a light rail planned at some point, but it was supposed to be above the surface. I wonder if the subway guy/gal confused Lima, Peru with Lima, Ohio. Just kidding!

I travel frequently to Central and South America and have talked to church groups going to or from such missions. I believe that many are building or restoring homes, helping with health care, and other positive things. I don't believe that they are going to preach, but merely to help the needy. I'm pretty pessimistic towards religion, but all the groups I've encountered were doing really good things.

Would you say the same thing about a US soup kitchen? How dare they want to say a prayer before the meal and convert people.

I have taken my teenager to countries with real poverty. I think it helps to understand how the world is, and appreciate the people, rich or poor in it.

The OP did say that they would be teaching religion.

I heartily agree, but the fact is that evangelical missionaries have already made big headway in Peru, especially among the poor and lower middle class. It's a shame really, since the last thing Peruvians need is more religion. What the poor need is good education and training, and a less corrupt public sector that would allow them the opportunity to build a better life. How much better it would be if the missionaries would help fill these gaps without foisting their own religious beliefs on other people.

I would hope that the OP would at least counsel her daughter on these issues before allowing her to participate in the trip.

This is not OMNI, but...
 

...if I had a 19 year old daughter and she came to me asking to go to slums to teach religion, I would be very concerned.
I would happily sit down with her and try to convince her of the merits of going to a 18-30 resort to get stupidly drunk and have (protected) sex with as many men as possible. Nuff said.

(This post is not made "tongue-in-cheek".)

I would agree that what is important is the group that is sponsoring the trip.

I believe that it is important for young people to experience what the world is like. And most of the world is poor. I took my son on a "mission experience" to Costa Rica when he was 12. At 14, he traveled to the Dominican Republic to work with Hatian refugees there. Seeing poverty can be a life changing experience for a young person (and for an older person, too). I have traveled to Nicaragua during the Contra era, out into the Atlantic coast region, to El Salvador, leading a Habitat work project in a small village. These have been transforming experiences for me.

She will experience culture shock, not there, but when she returns to the States and no one understands the experience she has had.

A daughter of one of my friends died in Argentina working on a mission project because the heater they were using vented carbon monoxide. And other children have died in the US in car accidents. Everything we do carries risks. We tend to under rate the risk of the things that are familiar to us (like driving a car) and over estimate the risk of the unfamiliar. Learn as much as you can about the organization. Trust your judgment. And if it is a part of your belief system, pray.

I have not worked in Peru in a couple of years, but spent six years working in country - mostly in the bush doing mineral exploration work. I lived in the States and commuted regularly. However, during that time I spent considerable time in Lima transiting to and from other parts of the country.

As others have said, Lima is a vast mixture of areas, some quite safe and very upscale, others you want no part of. Also, as others have said, there is poverty and the there is abject third world poverty of the kind that can be found in Peru including parts of Lima. I must admit, that I avoided the worst parts of Lima as there is really no reason for a gringo to wander around there.

You were given good advice about learning all you can about the poeple who will be leading the trip. You should also inquire as to what parts of Lima they expect to visit and work. When they speak of a "slum" they may be speaking more of the lower income parts of Lima, not the truely dangerous shanty towns that popped up during the height of the Sendero. An American idea of a "slum" and a Lima shanty town are quite different.

If your daughter goes, she will be in for an eye opening experience unlike anything she could gain here in the US. I took my oldest son with me on one of my trips a few years ago just so he could gain an understanding of just what true poverty can look like. He still talks about it today. My advice would be to check things out well, and if you feel relatively comfortable with things to let her go. All in all, Lima is a fairly safe place these days and has improved considerably from the years when I was picked up at the airport by armed security personnel. I would have no qualms about letting someone in my family go on such as trip as long as they were to stay out of the very worst parts of town which I suspect they will - parks, schools and open air markets can (obviously) be found throughout Lima. Maybe you could go with her and gain the experience as well.