Peru - itinerary help, please
 

Edited 1/23/12: [SEE POST 18 FOR UPDATED ITINERARY BASED ON COMMENTS IN POSTS 2-17!]

I've got a 13 day Peru trip coming up in late June-early July. The JFK-LIM-CUZ and PEM-CUZ-LIM-JFK-LAX flights are ticketed (AA award); I would appreciate input, esp. answers to the questions listed below:

Day 1 - arrive LIM from JFK; LIM-CUZ. Stay at Tambo del Inka (SPG award)
Day 2 - nothing major planned, to acclimate to altitude. If doing ok, see Sacred Valley sites.
Day 3 (Sunday) - Pisac Market; Inti Raymi (sun festival); other local (non-MP) sites
Day 4 - Macchu Pichu
Day 5 - Other Cusco-area sites
Day 6 - to Lake Titicaca [3:15pm nonstop flight]
Day 7 - at Lake Titicaca
Day 8 - to Arequipa [9am nonstop flight]
Day 9 - Arequipa
Day 10 - Valley of the Condors (AM); possibly fly to LIM on return from condor spotting
Day 11 - to Puerto Maldonado [either from AQP or LIM]
Day 12 - Lodge experience
Day 13 - leave P.Maldonado on mid-day flight to Lima (check luggage thru to LAX if possible); on arrival in LIM, leave airport for a rushed tour thru Lima, including nice dinner, before returning to LIM for 12:20am(+1) flight to US.

So, here are my questions:

1) Am I spending too much time in Urubamba and the whole Cusco area? I know I need a full day for MP (we're in our late 40s, so a 3-4 day hike of the Inca Trail is not really our thing), but do we need 3+ days for the rest of the Cusco area?

2) Suggestions are welcome for a place to stay at Lake Titicaca.

3) Suggestions are welcome for a lodge near Puerto Maldonado. We don't want to go "over the top" on the eco-stuff, and only have 2 nights there.

4) For Arequipa, we want to stay in a (nice - US 3.5-4 star level) hotel that is within walking distance of all the historical sites in the center of the city. In some of my reading, I saw a comment that the walk from Casa Arequipa to the Plaza de Armas/Santa Catalina area might not be the safest at night. Any feedback?

Thanks in advance...

I don't think 4 days Cuzco, including MP, is too much. You need at least 1 day for the city of Cuzco, which is best to be seen walking. Don't forget that at this altitude, you need more time to walk around and don't forget that after your day tour to MP you will certainly be tired the next day. If you do this from Cuzco, be prepared to leave around 05:00 am and come back around 09:00 pm. You also need time to get your MP tickets, best to do so in Cuzco while you are there.

Pisac market is very colorful and once there, I suggest to visit Pisac ruins. By the way there is a good hotel in Pisac (Royal Inca) at little bit ouside the village, but within walking distance to market and ruins. Calculate a full day for Pisac (market and ruins). There is also a good hotel just beside the train station in Ollantaytambo from where the trains to MP leave, this saves you the 60-120 minutes ride Cuzco-Ollanta in early morning or late evening. I would consider going to Ollanta after Pisac, instead of going back to Cuzco.

If you are worried about altitude sickness, start out with sacred valley, this is at lower altitudes than Cuzco itself.

Do you have the ability to rearrange the order here? I'd place Puerto Maldonado immediately before or after Cusco. Any flight to and from PEM stops at CUZ anyway, and it's just a 45-minute flight between the two. Backtracking to CUZ or LIM from somewhere else adds a lot of extra travel time that wouldn't be necessary if you make that change.

Now, if you visit Cusco before Puerto Maldonado, does the return from PEM get you to CUZ in time to connect elsewhere? That I don't know. If it doesn't, that would mean another night in Cusco.

MarLim - We're staying at Tambo del Inka for 2 reasons: it is in the Sacred Valley (Urubamba), and it's free (well, it's 50,000 SPG points for 6 nights, which is the next best thing). At that price, I will be glad to pay for taxis from the hotel to Cuzco, Pisac, etc., each day, and keep a single (very nice) address while in that area.

SJOGuy - Since the only options to/from Juliaca/Lake Titicaca are LIM, CUZ and AQP, the only more efficient option would be CUZ-PEM-CUZ-JUL-AQP-LIM. One friend who's been to Peru twice said that he learned to save his trips to the rain forest (P.Maldonado once, Iquitos the other time) until the end of his trip, so that he didn't have to worry about his stuff getting humid, wet, etc. That's why I booked CUZ-JUL-AQP-[LIM-]CUZ-PEM-CUZ-LIM, which (if we don't go back to LIM for the night) is only 1 extra segment. (Of course, since PEM-CUZ-LIM is on an AA award, I can probably shift the dates of those segments without charge...)

All - please, keep critiquing, suggesting, etc.!

There's lots to see and do in Cusco and the main site at Urubamba (Ollantaytambo?) is especially impressive. Besides touring the Incan ruins, there are other fun activities such as horseback riding and white water rafting. Having said that, if I were putting the trip together, I'd probably add a day on the Amazon. I took a very similar trip last summer and the Amazon was an amazing experience.

I recommend that on Day 3, you spend the night in Aguas Calientes. Macchu Pichu often looks completely different first thing in the morning. Being on that first bus is totally worth the effort.

I want to reiterate SJOGuy's suggestion regarding the order of the trip. It would make more sense to place Puerto Maldonado immediately before or after Cusco.

One final recommendation - If you can get a reservation, I highly recommend dining at Astrid y Gastón in Lima. It's ranked as one of the 50 best restaurants in the world. Try the Peking cuy!

OP, taxis back and forth may be doable but it is a fairly long trip and I'm not sure "ANY" taxi you hail on the streets will take you. May need to make arrangements before hand. When I was there, it seemed most were local only. Don't get me wrong, I like the Tambo too. It is a great place ... just not the convenient for visiting Cusco. For the sacred valley sites, its great. You can consider getting a driver to take you to 2 or 3 sites (salt mines, etc) in a day. I found a pretty good contact here on FT in an older post. If you want it, I can go dig it up.

For Lake Titicaca, I highly recommend Isla Suasi. It is on a private island on the east side of the lake. Not many places come close. It is consistently rated on Trip Advisor as the top hotel in the area. If you choose not to stay on an island, then there are a whole bunch of hotels in Puno.

I think 4 days in the Cusco area is about right, I don't much care for the city itself but the Sacred Valley is nice.

I second Pisac, probably cooler when the market is not in full swing as they bus tourists in from Cusco. If I remember rightly you could do the market in the morning then the ruins in the afternoon and that should avoid the crowds.

The ruins you probably only want to do one way, so there are profiteering taxi drivers at the end to return you to Pisac. Expensive but unless you are a weathered trekker it's your best option.

Also near Pisac, we borrowed someone's scooter and went to Huanca, a creepy place worth a look, everything is centred around the church of El Señor de Huanca.

A dining tip, not that all Peruvian food isn't amazing but the Cuchara de Palo at The Pisac Inn in the Plaza is brilliant value for money and their Alpaca brochetas with chaufa de quinoa was delicious. They also have a nice fire so you can put your feet up and dry your socks after las ruinas.

http://www.pisacinn.com/restaurant.htm

You will see houses and alleyways with a basket or a carrier bag on a stick. Baskets = good, well worth sticking your nose in there because they make delicious Andean bread in big open log ovens. Carrier bag = not so good, they make hot chicha and serve it out of a bucket. Depends how involved you want to get with the culture but it's a mistake I won't make again :p burp.

I don't get this. If they are offering the condors watch at Colca valley, you must sleep at Colca town, Chivay on day 9. In that case you would be travelling (by bus) from Arequipa city to Chivay on day 9. It's a 4 to 5 hours trip (a beautiful one). Then they'd wake up at 6am on day 10 to go by bus thru the valley and reach the condor spotting at 10am aprox. Condors appear mostly along the morning. And the whole valley is a beautiful experience. And yes, there is enough time on day 10 to go back to Arequipa city during afternoon and take a night flight to Lima.

So ask for details about the day 9 - day 10.

For a hotel in Arequipa, the Sonesta Posadas del Incas is right on the Plaza de Armas and has a fab view from the trerrace bar - as do some of the rooms, which are a bit old-fashioned but perfectly acceptable.

Not sure if it's unsafe, never stayed at the Casa Arequipa area but there are several hotels closer to Plaza de Armas, within downtown area and it's very safe. Arequipa nightlife is very active sou you won't feel alone.

Yes, Sonesta is a good option. Casa Andina is a very good one too, the Classic, cause the Private Collection is far more expensive. And Classic Casa Andina is not far from Plaza de Armas, and streets around there are beautiful.

Casa Andina has a Private Collection hotel at Isla Suasi too. Yes it's the best option, but expensive, though the experience is really worth it! There's a Casa Andina Classic at Puno City too. You can check prices at http://www.casa-andina.com/

Again, I do appreciate everyone's input & ideas!

JohnnyColombia -- so, if I understand you, you're saying eat the bread before drinking the chicha, right?

Villavic, this is not an organized tour -- this is my DIY itinerary, based on (a) where I could find 2 award seats in J using my AA miles, for the times we will be free this summer, and (b) as much research as I could squeeze in to the 4+ days when these tix were on hold with AA.

I will have to pass on the alpaca & guy -- we eat "pesca-tarian" (fish, but no shellfish, and vegetarian (w/lacto-ovo) only).

Re going condor spotting: it's 200km from Arequipa to the Mirador Cruz del Condor. Is that more than a 3-hour drive? My thinking initially was to hire someone to pick us up at 4am, arrive at Cabanaconde around 7:30 (Google Maps says it's a 3h15m drive via the PanAmerica Sur/1SE), and see the condors that morning. In doing more websurfing, I've seen the comment that the roads there are not safe at night (as roads - not for any other reason).

FrogProf - the "Aguas Calientes" debate has been among the more even split arguments of those who've been to Peru...given the low cost of lodging in A.C., if we decide to overnight there, we'll probably just take a daypack of stuff (rather than move our larger duffel from the Tambo).

Just be aware that "cuy" = guinea pig.

The road from Arequipa city to Chivay is good, pavement, but there are many curves and the road is uphill, so it doesn't go too fast. But then from Chivay to Cabanaconde, it's kind of dirt road. Cars go even slower. Definitely you can't go directly from Arequipa to Cabanaconde, it's too much, and it is impossible to do in 4 hours. It's far more, day or night. Don't trust in Google this time.

Besides the trip from Arequipa to Chivay is an experience itself. You will surround the main volcanos, see free vicuñas, llamas farms, ponds, lagoons, snowy mountains from the highest view point (almost 5000mt over the sea), and the entrance to Colca valley is another spectacle.

Though I usually travel independent, I went to Colca with friends on an organized tour in 2011. We departed 7am aprox from Arequipa and arrived to Chivay at 1pm (but we did like 4 stops to watch what I mentioned). Next day they picked us at 6am, did 3 stops along the valley and arrived to Cabanaconde at 10:30am aprox.

I think you must do the trips by day. I suggest you do more research about it. All organized tours do this trip staying one night in Chivay, you should do similar time even if you hire a private car/driver.

Big Picture Questions as I ponder the feedback
 

I've done more reading and thinking.

- Are we trying to do too many sites?

- Do I need more time in the Cusco area?

- Is it worth 3 days at Lake Titicaca just to stay at Isla Suasi? You board their boat at 730am in Puno, which means arriving in Puno the night before. Are the floating islands all that great?

- Is Colca Canyon worth 2 of our 13 days?

- Are we shortchanging the rain forest/jungle areas?

thoughts?

If you start with Cuzco and surroundings, it makes sense to continue to Lake Titicaca, as well as Colca Canyon, as you are already aclimatized to the altitude. If you have to do either of the 2 other areas during another trip you have to get yourself again aclimatized and will loose a couple of days starting slowly. You will rest in Puno at 3,800m altitude; coming from Cuzco, you should not be affected by that, but coming from Lima, you won't enjoy the first 2-3 days. I think 4 days for Cuzco/MP is about right, it will not allow you to see everything, but you'll see the major sites and it allows you to aclimatize to the altitude, but I'm not sure if I would spend 3 days at Lake Titicaca. Puno is not that great a city, but a good place to base yourself, the islands are unique, but be aware that you may have heavy winds with a very moving boat ride. Colca Canyon is certainly another highlight of Peru after MP. If you have to skip something from your trip, I'd skip Puerto Maldonado. It would be a very different experience, but as I said before I'd take advantage of being in high altitude and do as many sites up there as possible.

And as others have said, calculate more time for driving than you would in the US. In my experience you always need more time than you think. The road can be closed for a couple of hours due to to maintenace works or for any other reason or you may be behind a slow moving truck for some miles with no visibility to pass.

Let's see...

- Are we trying to do too many sites?Yeah, a bit. But you have chosen the best. I understand you can't stay more days, or changing the award flights is not an option.

- Do I need more time in the Cusco area? I've been in Cusco 5 times, one time it was 12 days (including inca trail), so you know... never enough;).
But seriously.. Pisac Market is within the sacred valley, so that whole tour could be on day 3 and I would avoid Inti Raymi.

Another must is the ruines near Cusco city: Sacsayhuaman (don't miss it), Tambomachay, Qenko y Puka Pukara. You can do it on day 2 afternoon (enough time) but JUST if you acclimate and feel fine. (is closer than sacred valley so it makes sense).

- Is it worth 3 days at Lake Titicaca just to stay at Isla Suasi? You board their boat at 730am in Puno, which means arriving in Puno the night before. Are the floating islands all that great? Isla Suasi is far from Puno city . It's worth it, but if you want to save time, you can stay at Puno city (not the nicest city but it's more practical to do it), at a Casa Andina Classic or similar hotel, and take a day trip to the floating islands and Taquile island (closer than Suasi), I did it and it's wonderful. And YES floating islans is worth it! (IMHO). The day trip pick you from hotel at 6am aprox, so you must arrange everything anticipated.

Then you can cut one day fro Puno and stay one more in Cusco, that would be my decision. Again, just my opinion.


- Is Colca Canyon worth 2 of our 13 days? I did 2 entire days (2 nights actually) but staying one night is enough. Not sure what you like most, actuall. But if you are looking for landscape, nature, valleys, flora & fauna, Colca is a must.

- Are we shortchanging the rain forest/jungle areas?
I've not been in Puerto M., but in Iquitos. Not sure if 2 days is enough, I would say yes, but I guess you must do more research.

If it's your first time in Peru, I guess the main stops are Cusco and Puno. But again, it depends on what you want to see, what you like most. Cusco is more history, ruines (plus landscape valleys). Puno and Arequipa are more nature, landscapes, valleys, mountains, the lake.

Jungle is.. obviously nature, adventure!, animals!, rivers, HEAT!!!

Just for info, there are 1 day tours for Colca canyon. Of course it's not the full experience, but OK if you have just one day. We did see condors while there. If you have a private driver, you could see even more.

Revised itinerary - with thanks for everyone's input!
 

Day 1 - arrive LIM from JFK; LIM-CUZ. Stay at Tambo del Inka (SPG award)
Day 2 - nothing major planned, to acclimate to altitude. If doing ok, see Sacred Valley sites.
Day 3 (Sunday) - Pisac Market; [possibly Inti Raymi (sun festival);] other local (non-MP) sites
Day 4 - Macchu Pichu
Day 5 - Other Cusco-area sites
Day 6 - Other sites in the Sacred Valley-Cusco area; to Arequipa [3:15pm nonstop flight]
Day 7 - Colca Canyon tour
Day 8 - Colca Canyon tour; evening return to Arequipa
Day 9 - Arequipa (and maybe a massage!)
Day 10 - 8:30am n/s flight to Juliaca/Lake Titicaca; overnight Puno
Day 11 - 7:45am JUL-CUS-PEM; to Sandoval Lake Lodge OR Tambopata Eco Lodge
Day 12 - Lodge
Day 13 - return to PEM; PEM-CUZ-LIM-JFK-LAX (unless the LIM-LAX n/s opens up for J awards). Dinner in Lima, with tour if possible.

So, now, we're looking for (a) hotel recommendations in Arequipa and Puno, (b) feedback on which Lodge (Sandoval or Tampobata Eco) and (c) info on how to best use our limited time at Lake Titicaca [assume 10am arrival at JUL; sunset is at 5:15pm - by which I assume we want to be off the lake].

Long time lurker to FT, first time poster.

Your day 13 may be extremely busy, and finding a decent spot to eat near the airport for a metropolitan Lima dinner is going to be difficult. Not to mention trip exhaustion, etc. How much time do you have before departure? The LA LIM->LAX usually leaves just after midnight (like its SFO counterpart).

As another poster mentioned here, you can almost never spend too much time in Cusco. In fact, I can't wait to go back - there's just so much to do, eat, drink, party, explore... Once you get up into the mountains, things run at a much different pace (the taxi drivers are still psychotic, but to a lesser extent than in Lima).

Urubamba is a dump (relatively speaking); Cusco has a lot more to do and you just might need more time to acclimatize than you thought.

We did a family stay at Amantani, which although sparse by US standards, was quite nice and an authentic experience. Because our arrival didn't mesh with the normal folks who'd arrive in the morning for the group tour of titicaca, we ended up hiring a boat all to ourselves. It was a bit extravagant but nice and quiet. We booked through http://www.titicacaperu.com/

We spent a night at los tambos, which was quite nice despite the day we arrived it started to pour. It's a 3.5 star hotel and if I remember correctly, definitely within walking distance to all the good sites.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, Vesuv1us -- and a belated welcome to FT.

We know that the last day is crazy; if all goes per schedule, we get in to LIM at 3:30pm or so, which should allow us enough time to drive in to Lima (ETA 5pm), see things from the outside (for an hour or so), eat dinner (6:30-8:30pm) & go back to LIM (arriving 9:30 for the 12:20am flight).

Obviously, if we are dead on our feet, or if our flights in to LIM don't go as scheduled, we just stay at the airport and rough it in the lounge.

I'm not meaning to threadjack, but I'm doing a similar trip. The info in this thread is very useful so thanks.

My trip is a little different in that I have 17 days and that this is going to be my honeymoon in late October. At this point I have decided to cut out Puno and replace it with Paracas (maybe a mistake, but we'll see).

* I'm using AA miles for the flight.
* I'm using SPG points in Paracas, Urubamba, and possibly Cuzco as I've read here there is another hotel in Cuzco being remodeled as a starwood hotel that might open in June/July.

Here is my plan so far:

1. (flight) Home->Lima (arrive at 4:30am) --> 7:00am (3hr bus) Paracas/Pisco
2. Paracas (Huacachina/Ica daytrip for dunebuggying and winery tours)
3. Paracas (Nazca daytrip)
4. (3hr bus) Lima (2hr flight) Arequipa
5. Arequipa
6. (bus) Chivay / Colca Canyon
7. Chivay / Colca Canyon
8. (bus) Arequipa (flight) Cuzco
9. Cuzco
10. Cuzco
11,12,13,14. (trek Inca Trail) Machu Picchu
15. Urubamba (sacred valley tours)
16. Urubamba
17. (flight) Cuzco->Lima->Home

Things I'm still trying to figure out:
1. How can I squeeze in a dinner at that nice restaurant in Lima? Maybe make my Cuzco->Lima flight happen on day 16? A dinner like that might be the perfect way to end our honeymoon.
2. Which hotel to stay at in Colca Valley
3. I'm really iffy on going to Nazca for the flight over the nazca lines. I've read in forums that some people felt it wasn't worth it. But my fiancee currently thinks that looks awesome and really wants to do it. So its on the itinerary for now.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Again sorry to threadjack.

FWIW, a couple of comments on Lima restaurants. First, if you're into fish, you should aim to dine at lunch, not dinner. Traditionally, seafood in Lima is eaten when still fresh, which means off the boat at dawn and consumed before the sun goes down. Which is not to say you can't get seafood in the evening, but most of the good "cevicherías" are only open for lunch, which means from noon until around 5pm (it's a relaxed affair). There are a lot of excellent lunch-only seafood restaurants in Lima, with new ones opening all the time. You can try El Mercado, La Mar and Pescados Capitales to start, all three are located in Miraflores on or near Av. La Mar.

Second comment, IMHO Astrid y Gastón is past its prime. Gastón Acurio no longer owns or directly manages the place, and I think frankly they have gotten a little stale, and they're kind of stuck in the 90s, so to speak. Two places that I would recommend more for dinner in Lima are Los Cavenecia, in Barranco (a district well worth a visit anyway) and Capital, in Miraflores. There are many others too, Lima being a gastronomic paradise.

Is there enough to do vacation-wise if we were to spend 2 - 3 days in the Arequipa area?

dh

2 days is fine if you want to do just Arequipa city, or just Colca valley.

3 days, if you mean entire days, it would be good for 2 days at Colca and one entire day in Arequipa city.

If you want to see all the Nazca lines, a flight is your only option, otherwise there is an observation tower along the Panamericana highway from where you can see 2-3 figures. It is for sure something unique, not as impressive as you might think, but still worthwile to do. Flights are done with small aircrafts and the pilots will fly many sharp curves (have a good stomach). You have to reserve your flight at least the day before, but be aware that flight schedules are depending on what time the fog clears. Try to be on an early flight, as the last ones are subject to cancellation, if they cannot start early.

Just on a sidenote, why would you go back to Lima from Nazca to go on to Arequipa then, being already almost halfway south, I'd consider spending a night in Nazca rather than 2 nights in Paracas and taking a bus from there south directly towards Arequipa.

I'd say Nazca is at about the half way from Lima to Areqipa, so no need to go back to Lima by bus and then fly to Arequipa. There are several daily buses along the Panamericana, so it would be faster and cheaper to continue by bus

I think it's like 6 hours Lima - Nazca and 9 hours Nazca Arequipa (by bus).

A bit hard to answer. If you ask me if I enjoyed Nazca lines, or if it's a must.. I would say Yes! If you ask me if i want to go again... I'd say.. No. The site is nice, very very interesting. But IMHO it's not amazing as the Inca ruins around Cusco (and of course I'm not mentioning Machu Picchu). You must like or be very interesting in history, misterious places, archeological sites, etc. to enjoy it. Besides there isn't much more to do in Nazca, a very small town. My point here is the effort to go so far may be not enough worthwhile for some people, but I do think it is. Though not to go again.. not like Cusco for example that I have been lot of times (or Huaraz or the Amazonas).

Agree 100%. I drove by myself from Lima to Nazca, it was anout 6 hours. Nazca-Arequipa is like 7 or 8 more hours.
The early flight is recommendable not only because of the cancellations issue, but also because you MUST fly with empty stomach, BEFORE breakfast. The sharp curves flight are true, because the pilot wants to show all lines to all passengers, those seated at the left windows, and those at the right ones. So the airplane is always doing curves and leaning to one side and then to the other. So getting sick is easy (I didn't follow the recommendation and took the plane after breakfast. Believe me, don't do it! Fortunately it didn't happen what you are thinking, but I felt a bit sick anyway). Anyway the flight is worthwhile and far better than the tower view.

A good and faster option is to take the flight from Ica, that save you like 3 hours by bus, you don't have to sleep in Nazca and the alternative of going back to Lima makes more sense. Besides as you already must know there are more places to see in Ica (sand dunes, sandboard, Huacachina oasis, Paracas bay with seals islands, etc.).But if the Lima - Arequipa trip is by bus, then stopping at Nazca is better. And the Ica-Nazca lines flight is more expensive, that's true.