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why don't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia ?

why don't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia ?

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Old Mar 23, 18, 5:36 pm
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why don't Air Transat fly to Hawaii & Australia ?

It seems that the fares on Air Canada between Australia & Canada are very high.

With Air Transats current fleet they could fly to one stop to Australia either via Hawaii or via any number of Pacific nations who would love nonstop service to anywhere in North America, such as Western Samoa, who years ago had nonstop to LAX.

Via Hawaii has it's hassles, like entering USA, but surely a quick one stop in same aircraft in Samoa or somewhere would be almost as good as nonstop & open up other routes, eg. Canada/Samoa & Samoa/Australia which has very little competition. Samoa Air only flies to Sydney & they have shut out Virgin Australia.
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Old Mar 26, 18, 9:58 am
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Originally Posted by southpac View Post
It seems that the fares on Air Canada between Australia & Canada are very high.

With Air Transats current fleet they could fly to one stop to Australia either via Hawaii or via any number of Pacific nations who would love nonstop service to anywhere in North America, such as Western Samoa, who years ago had nonstop to LAX.

Via Hawaii has it's hassles, like entering USA, but surely a quick one stop in same aircraft in Samoa or somewhere would be almost as good as nonstop & open up other routes, eg. Canada/Samoa & Samoa/Australia which has very little competition. Samoa Air only flies to Sydney & they have shut out Virgin Australia.
Canada is a small country, as is Australia in terms of population, and I doubt there is enough demand between the two countries to justify additional flights. Airlines are always looking for markets where they can make money, if there was more money to be made in the Australia-Canada market an airline would be exploiting that market demand.
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Old Mar 27, 18, 7:12 pm
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Originally Posted by jaysona View Post
Canada is a small country, as is Australia in terms of population, and I doubt there is enough demand between the two countries to justify additional flights. Airlines are always looking for markets where they can make money, if there was more money to be made in the Australia-Canada market an airline would be exploiting that market demand.
well Air Canada have a monopoly from Vancouver to Brisbane & Melbourne & almost a monopoly to Sydney. Fares are very very high to go nonstop, so there is always money to be made, when 1 airline has a monopoly & charges accordingly.

Air Transats costs are much lower than Air Canadas, so Air Canada would not want to get into a price war with them.
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Old Mar 25, 19, 9:48 am
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Originally Posted by southpac View Post
well Air Canada have a monopoly from Vancouver to Brisbane & Melbourne & almost a monopoly to Sydney. Fares are very very high to go nonstop, so there is always money to be made, when 1 airline has a monopoly & charges accordingly.

Air Transats costs are much lower than Air Canadas, so Air Canada would not want to get into a price war with them.
not enough demand, AC has the infrastructure already in place and more planes. TS can make more money flying other routes with their very limited long range planes
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Old Mar 25, 19, 3:44 pm
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Originally Posted by gilboman View Post
not enough demand, AC has the infrastructure already in place and more planes. TS can make more money flying other routes with their very limited long range planes
no there's plenty of demand. Many Australians & Canadians fly via LAX, SFO or SEA to get between Australia & Canada.

Canada 3000 did very well out of the route YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR.

Canada 3000 were the launch airline for the A330-200 & put 340 economy seats in a 2-4-2 seating configuration on those aircraft.

Air Transat has plenty of A330s, (-200s & -300s) with various seating configurations, that can easily do YVR (or Abbotsford) to HNL or another Hawaiian airport, then onto various ports in Australia/NZ.

Qantas doesn't operate more nonstops to Canada, as they are a very high cost airline.

Air Transat could start with seasonal services eg. in northern winter. Twice a week would work.

Last edited by OZFLYER86; Mar 25, 19 at 3:49 pm
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Old Apr 10, 19, 10:36 am
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Originally Posted by OZFLYER86 View Post
no there's plenty of demand. Many Australians & Canadians fly via LAX, SFO or SEA to get between Australia & Canada.

Canada 3000 did very well out of the route YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR.
Yes but enough demand, at low pricing, to justify the several day loss of one aircraft due vs. churn back and forth on 3-5 hour tropical flights?

Canada 3000: And where are they now? Maybe they did not do all that well overall. Kaput 18 years ago. The story of many a LCC over the years in Canada.

Here it is from Wikipedia: On November 8, 2001 the company suddenly collapsed with no warning for travelers or employees. The company filed for bankruptcy, citing a downturn in air travel during the weeks following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States. The fleet was left grounded at various airports around the world, leaving 50,000 vacationers stranded. September 10, 2001 was a record booking day, but within a few days air traffic declined by 50%. The airline was offered a $75 million loan guarantee from the Canadian government under the condition of a 'viable business plan' being produced. By November 7, 2001, the airline had $260 million in debt, and only had $1.49 million in cash. In secret, it had applied to the Canada Labour Board for permission to cut labour costs by 30% by closing its Royal division immediately. The Board would not approve without union agreement. Union offers to cut 700 pilot and flight attendant positions did not provide enough savings immediately and the airline applied for bankruptcy protection on November 8, while it planned to continue flying. By the end of the day, airport authorities in Toronto and St. John's, Newfoundland has seized planes under court authority and the company directors decided to cease operations.
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Old Apr 10, 19, 6:30 pm
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Originally Posted by ricktoronto View Post
Yes but enough demand, at low pricing, to justify the several day loss of one aircraft due vs. churn back and forth on 3-5 hour tropical flights?

Canada 3000: And where are they now? Maybe they did not do all that well overall. Kaput 18 years ago. The story of many a LCC over the years in Canada.

Here it is from Wikipedia: On November 8, 2001 the company suddenly collapsed with no warning for travelers or employees. The company filed for bankruptcy, citing a downturn in air travel during the weeks following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States. The fleet was left grounded at various airports around the world, leaving 50,000 vacationers stranded. September 10, 2001 was a record booking day, but within a few days air traffic declined by 50%. The airline was offered a $75 million loan guarantee from the Canadian government under the condition of a 'viable business plan' being produced. By November 7, 2001, the airline had $260 million in debt, and only had $1.49 million in cash. In secret, it had applied to the Canada Labour Board for permission to cut labour costs by 30% by closing its Royal division immediately. The Board would not approve without union agreement. Union offers to cut 700 pilot and flight attendant positions did not provide enough savings immediately and the airline applied for bankruptcy protection on November 8, while it planned to continue flying. By the end of the day, airport authorities in Toronto and St. John's, Newfoundland has seized planes under court authority and the company directors decided to cease operations.
All Canada 3000 had to be was a little bit cheaper than the big boys.

IMO
If sep 11 hadn't happened, Canada 3000 would be much bigger than Air Canada now.

I suspect that Canada 3000 bookings declined way more than 50% from SEP11, as they were mainly leisure like Air Transat. Apparently they were about to reconfigure the seating on their A330-200s to 2 class.

Maybe Jetstar(Australia) will start flying HNL/YVR or HNL/YXX(is that Abbotsford code?) Makes a lot of sense.

Also no one carrier flies BNE/HNL/YVR or SYD/HNL/YVR or MEL/HNL/YVR.

For Australians YVR with a stopover option in HNL. Why not ?

Last edited by OZFLYER86; Apr 11, 19 at 6:48 am
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Old Apr 11, 19, 12:22 pm
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Originally Posted by OZFLYER86 View Post
All Canada 3000 had to be was a little bit cheaper than the big boys.

IMO
If sep 11 hadn't happened, Canada 3000 would be much bigger than Air Canada now.
Ummmmm.... that's a pretty big hypothetical you've got going there.

Canada's size and population distribution -- including the fact that much of its population lives within driving distance of far-cheaper US airports -- has long meant it can't support two big national airlines. That's why Canadian disappeared -- before 9/11.
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Old May 2, 19, 4:21 pm
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if Air Canada(AC) take over Air Transat(TS) ................. rather than another operator that would be in direct competition with AC .........

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=3&m_id=s~s~Y!bdv& w_id=36099&news_id=2037257

then TS could fly routes like Vancouver)(YVR/Abbotsford(YXX) to Hawaii (HNL or Maui OGG or other Hawiian port) then onto Australia.

They could simply start seasonally esp over DEC-JAN period when demand is huge & just like Qantas do SYD/HNL(both Qantas & Jetstar fly this route nonstop, aimed at different market segments)

so eg.

AC fly YVR/HNL & YVR/BNE, YVR/SYD & YVR/MEL

& TS fly YVR/OGG & then onto BNE, SYD & MEL or perhaps rather than BNE, fly to OOL & rather than MEL fly to AVV. Twice a week would work. TS could say direct to Australia(via Hawaii), while AC could offer the nonstops.

Perhaps instead of AC doing twice a day YVR/HNL & YVR/OGG in peak periods in B737 max 8s they, could give some of these flights to TS & use a widebody with more basic service, which continues onto Australia or New Zealand or even Fiji(if the Fijians will allow them traffic rights). There's huge demand for low cost long haul. The likes of Scoot are having an impact on what big boys can charge Australia to Europe. Australia & probably the rest of the world are heading into one massive recession, where low costs will boom at the expense of full service carriers.

From memory Canada 3000 flew same 340 seat A330-200 aircraft something like YYZ/YVR/HNL/NAN/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ once a week in each direction. (not sure about Fiji stop, but I did fly YVR/NAN once on Canada 3000)

+ don't think AC flies Calgary YYC/HNL (Westjet WS does twice a week using a 767-300ER in peak periods at least)

+ WS flies EdmontonYEG/OGG twice a week using 767-300ERs & AC doesn't & no one seems to fly YEG/HNL at all.

AC seems to want to push everyone via YVR.

YXX is perfect low cost airport as alternative to YVR. Have never flown out of YXX, but it seems to be close to most of Vancouver population & closer to anyone living just east of Vancouver


+

Last edited by OZFLYER86; May 2, 19 at 4:36 pm
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Old May 7, 19, 7:31 pm
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Um, I think they have orders more aircraft. They haven't orders A330-800neo or A350-900XWB. They don't have enough aircraft availability. I would considered if TS will orders a new aircraft in near the future.
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Old May 8, 19, 1:47 am
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Im confused. You complain about the DIRECT flight costs Canada-Oz... and claim certain ONE stop routes would somehow be 'almost as good".... but there are MANY one stops already.. SYD-AKL-YVR on NZ for a start...not to mention all the options via LAX/SFO (and Asia) Why would transiting Samoa magically be better???
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