m3red

Let's not turn this into a U.S. Vs me3 thread!

Globaliser

Your entire post starts with this error.

m3red

You don't think it's a serious offence when someone whose sole job is safety forgets to cross check and disarm?!

Seriously?

Globaliser

Yes, seriously. For a start, the word "offence" is completely out of place here.

m3red

I don't think so. Each to their own though - it's a misconduct offence. Not sure what your issue is with the work offence? Is massive f@£k up better?

Globaliser

Then I'm glad that you don't run an airline SMS.

m3red

If I ran an airline I'd treat it as serious misconduct. I'd take them off duty and put them on a performance improvement plan and final written warning for 12 months. I'm guessing if you don't get fired that would be a good result for any crew who did this.

Globaliser

When I said SMS, I meant SMS.

m3red

I'm not an Internet geek no idea what SMS means? Short message service?

AtlanticX

"One-size-fits-all" approaches seem hardly useful in preventing recurrence. I'd take a rather different approach.

First: Root cause. What exactly happened? Why? (Ask that question 5 times, at least) What can we learn or improve?

Also the question: How did I as a supervisor/manager/executive contribute to this? Organisations don't function in a vacuum, especially not those under leadership. (Poor leadership does operate as if in a vacuum, by the way)

It is quite possible that as an outcome of the above, you do end up concluding that besides everything else there's also full or partial individual responsibility.

Then context comes into action: Is this a model employee, that's never made an operational mistake in their life before? They're likely to take full responsibility out of their own accord. Worst case, you'll have to convince them not to resign.

Is it someone new? Do they take responsibility? Then you probably wouldn't want to let go of this person. They've learned a very valuable lesson.

Is it someone whose performance has been poor and it's the latest in a pattern of mishaps? Again you could look at your organisation: why did this not get noticed before, what actions were taken? If you can conclude that your organisation is fully up to par in procedures and training and this person refuses to take responsibility, only then there's something to be said for firing.

Anyway. Just to say. You can make a hard-and-fast rule how to resolve such an event in advance ("if the ball gets dropped, people are fired!"), but what does that accomplish? I'm pretty sure the FA didn't not disarm the door because she didn't worry about her job. Far better to implement hard-and-fast reviews of such events, and let a resolution emerge from there. You'll end up with solutions and an organisation that actually improves itself.

flatlander

If you're not familiar with the concept, purpose, and implementation of an aviation or other SMS (Safety Management System) then I respectfully suggest you are insufficiently well informed to be making statements about how safety lapses in the aviation industry should be dealt with and how any individuals involved should be punished.

m3red

This is an open forum where people are entitled to an opinion. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I can't share it or contribute. I disagree with your post and its tone.

I fly a lot, my view is based on my thoughts on flying, my experiences and safety and also knowledge of the law where I know such incident could be treated as a sackable offence by many employers - as I've said that's up to the airline.

millionmiler

People are fired for much less in the UK and other "civilized countries" every day. The fact that you would be surprised by that tells to me that you have much to learn.

millionmiler

Its not just a few airlines in the US. Shocking that you would argue otherwise using that particular language. The world is not divided between stupid people and you.

Pet0r

Deleted.