Egypt Air - business/first class
Sep 20, 2008, 4:21 pm
#16
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posts: 1,667
Sep 21, 2008, 2:15 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
I originally was booked in a low fare Economy Ticket with a Tour Group but in both cases I walked up to the First Class ticket counter on the day of travel and was able to upgrade at JFK and Cairo airport respectively on the day of travel and pay $ 770 for a Y to F upgrade.
I've called three times to no avail; how big may this "handbag" be? How heavy? Nobody could really tell me. I've got one 15-lb wheeled backpack at the ready and a large shoulder bag filled with toiletries at about 18 lbs. I'd love to wear another, non-wheeled backpack instead of the shoulder bag but I've not ever flown MS and I'd really like to avoid huge hassle at JFK. [Having had my actual wallet weighed at AKL by QF has left me scarred for life, I think...]
In any event, I'm going to try my patented trick of wearing cargo pants and a huge hideous fishermans' vest that I can cram full of electronic equipment and camera lenses in a pinch.
Sep 23, 2008, 12:52 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,005
I'm down to 50 lbs in one bag and 51 in the other, but MS is super-vague on carry on rules (you can have one 7 kilo [15 lb] carryon and "a handbag.")
I've called three times to no avail; how big may this "handbag" be? How heavy? Nobody could really tell me.
I've called three times to no avail; how big may this "handbag" be? How heavy? Nobody could really tell me.
As for the baggage, I'd suggest you not make a fuss. Making a fuss can get rules enforced that would otherwise go unread.
It sounds from your description of the bags' contents that you'll have more interest shown in the security line than at check-in....
Sep 27, 2008, 10:44 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: United 1kMM; AA EX Plat, Hilton Diamond and SPG Plat
Posts: 2,012
I just completed two wonderful Egypt Air (MS) flights from JFK-Cairo and Cairo-JFK on Sept 8 and Sept 17th on 777-200 (I believe) in First Class. I originally was booked in a low fare Economy Ticket with a Tour Group but in both cases I walked up to the First Class ticket counter on the day of travel and was able to upgrade at JFK and Cairo airport respectively on the day of travel and pay $ 770 for a Y to F upgrade. I was given a Pass to the Swiss Air Club in NY's JFK Airport (my bags were already checked from my domestic location via United all the way to Cairo), so I spent 4 hours enjoying the beverages and meals in the Club. But I had heard about MS Air's "dry policy" so I stopped at the Duty Free shop at JFK and bought 4 mini bottles (An American Whiskey Sampler) and inquired if anyone in the Duty Free Shop knew about MS Air's on board delivery policy. All I was told was that it would be brought to me on board. On the flight OVER to Cairo, the package was delivered to me on board. The flight over was very, very nice. There were only five paying passengers in First Class. I had two middle seats to myself and there was another lady to my right by the window who had also been in the Duty Free Shop and had made a similar purchase. Throughout the flight, we were able to use our bottles and the Flight Attendant paid no attention to us. She even asked us if we needed "ice" for our drinks. The meals were served buffet style on a cart and we got to pick and choose what we wanted. We were then able to sleep for several hours, although the seats did not lay flat on the way over to Cairo. Then we were served a hot breakfast. The inflight entertainment system was a plus and it worked well. We were given hot towels several times during the flight. What amazed me was that as often as I got up to use the rest room which was near the flight deck, how often the flight deck door was being opened and closed and the flight crew was being rotated. There wasn't nearly the concern that there was on US flights about the flight deck door being open.
On the flight back, I followed the same procedure in Cairo and walked right up to the Cairo desk and did the same upgrade procedure for the same price. The Cairo lounge for 1st Class was not nearly as nice and no free alcohol. However, I did buy a fifth of alcohol and was able to bring it on the flight myself without it being delivered. There were only 3 first class passengers in a cabin of 6 seats. The other 3 seats were empty. When it came time to take a nap on the 12 hour flight, one of the relief pilots happened to be nearby and he showed me how to get the seat to lay completely 180 degrees flat (amazing!) by having me push the recline button while he stood in the rear and pushed another (hidden) button. It made all the difference in the world. I didn't even know the seat could do that. I asked him how he did that and he told me "pilot secret" and smiled. I was certainly glad he showed me that. He did that to the lady to my right as well and we were certainly pleased he did. I slept like a log for 6 hours. The meal service for the first meal was breakfast and after stuffing us with a cold and warm course, I thought I was done and then they brought out more hot food! Unfortunately, the next meal service, a very good but hot lunch was served too soon after the first meal service. It should have been served a few hours later, in my humble opinion. I was able to pour my drinks at will without a problem. Service was as good if not better than the first flight with very attentive flight attendants -- perhaps too attentive as it was daytime and some of us wanted to sleep more due to the longer flight.
All in all I found Egypt Air to be very attentive in First Class and was glad I spent the extra money rather than being stuffed in Coach and was glad I had the full flat seat on the return flight to sleep for a good six hours.
On the flight back, I followed the same procedure in Cairo and walked right up to the Cairo desk and did the same upgrade procedure for the same price. The Cairo lounge for 1st Class was not nearly as nice and no free alcohol. However, I did buy a fifth of alcohol and was able to bring it on the flight myself without it being delivered. There were only 3 first class passengers in a cabin of 6 seats. The other 3 seats were empty. When it came time to take a nap on the 12 hour flight, one of the relief pilots happened to be nearby and he showed me how to get the seat to lay completely 180 degrees flat (amazing!) by having me push the recline button while he stood in the rear and pushed another (hidden) button. It made all the difference in the world. I didn't even know the seat could do that. I asked him how he did that and he told me "pilot secret" and smiled. I was certainly glad he showed me that. He did that to the lady to my right as well and we were certainly pleased he did. I slept like a log for 6 hours. The meal service for the first meal was breakfast and after stuffing us with a cold and warm course, I thought I was done and then they brought out more hot food! Unfortunately, the next meal service, a very good but hot lunch was served too soon after the first meal service. It should have been served a few hours later, in my humble opinion. I was able to pour my drinks at will without a problem. Service was as good if not better than the first flight with very attentive flight attendants -- perhaps too attentive as it was daytime and some of us wanted to sleep more due to the longer flight.
All in all I found Egypt Air to be very attentive in First Class and was glad I spent the extra money rather than being stuffed in Coach and was glad I had the full flat seat on the return flight to sleep for a good six hours.
Sep 29, 2008, 12:55 pm
#20
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,452
Actually makes perfect sense.
Egyptair has old style product offering - and old style pricing to come with it.
From the rear, 3-4-2 9 abreast and no individual IFE in coach is old style. 9 abreast is the original 747 coach, soon packed into 10 abreast. On the later and smaller 9 abreast planes like DC-10 and Tristar, there were often other arrangements like 2-5-2 and 3-3-3. KLM had 3-4-2 till recently - and changed to 3-3-3 while installing IFE. Finnair MD11 still has 3-4-2. Egyptair is notable for still having 3-4-2 on a plane so new as 777. And 34-35 inches pitch is generous - what used to be standard, but other airlines have crammed their seats to 32 inches pitch, or less.
Business class, 40-42 inches pitch and 7 abreast? It is very limited pitch compared to many other airlines. BUT it is what those airlines had not so long ago. On the other hand, 40-42 inches is good for premium economy. And premium economy on 777 usually has 8 abreast, not 7.
In first class, 6 abreast and 62 inches pitch is less than on most airlines with first class - but also what first class was on those airlines rather recently.
So, comparing same branded class with same class, Egyptair business and first are much less of a seat. But if they follow the old style pricing, it is also very affordable compared to upgraded superluxury first class. No wonder it is so enjoyed by someone who otherwise could only have flown coach.
Egyptair has old style product offering - and old style pricing to come with it.
From the rear, 3-4-2 9 abreast and no individual IFE in coach is old style. 9 abreast is the original 747 coach, soon packed into 10 abreast. On the later and smaller 9 abreast planes like DC-10 and Tristar, there were often other arrangements like 2-5-2 and 3-3-3. KLM had 3-4-2 till recently - and changed to 3-3-3 while installing IFE. Finnair MD11 still has 3-4-2. Egyptair is notable for still having 3-4-2 on a plane so new as 777. And 34-35 inches pitch is generous - what used to be standard, but other airlines have crammed their seats to 32 inches pitch, or less.
Business class, 40-42 inches pitch and 7 abreast? It is very limited pitch compared to many other airlines. BUT it is what those airlines had not so long ago. On the other hand, 40-42 inches is good for premium economy. And premium economy on 777 usually has 8 abreast, not 7.
In first class, 6 abreast and 62 inches pitch is less than on most airlines with first class - but also what first class was on those airlines rather recently.
So, comparing same branded class with same class, Egyptair business and first are much less of a seat. But if they follow the old style pricing, it is also very affordable compared to upgraded superluxury first class. No wonder it is so enjoyed by someone who otherwise could only have flown coach.
Sep 30, 2008, 2:00 am
#21
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Location: London
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Oct 2, 2008, 10:28 am
#22
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,279
Did you get F miles?
Andrewjv,
I was just wondering, did you get F-class miles when you upgraded at the airport?
I am thinking of doing the same for another sector, but was just wondering if it will be also given F-class miles.
Any further detailed information on which button you need to depress to make the F seat into lie flat bed?
Thanks.
I was just wondering, did you get F-class miles when you upgraded at the airport?
I am thinking of doing the same for another sector, but was just wondering if it will be also given F-class miles.
Any further detailed information on which button you need to depress to make the F seat into lie flat bed?
Thanks.
Oct 9, 2008, 6:02 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MUC/HKT
Programs: UA1K;AAEXP;BAG
Posts: 595
Additional Recline MS B777
How to modify the recline of MS B777 seats:
1) Choose your seat wisely (do not take the last row in C/F cabin)
2) Pray that no one is seating behind you
3) Get onboard and check if you are lucky regarding 2)
4) If unlucky, try to switch to an appropriate seat
5) Open Armrest (which includes the table)
6) Search that slot for a small handle in the back; it is not necessary to remove the table
7) Pull it & push the seat back manually
8) Expect to be asked by FAs or other pax how you did that
9) Enjoy the advanced recline
Even though the modification will make a big difference it will not give you a full flat seat. Also not having an appropriate legrest to put your legs up while trying to fall asleep might feel uncomfortable in the beginning.
The additional recline does definately reduce the seat pitch of the person, if any, behind you. While it is theoretically possible to use that seat the person behind you will virtually have your head on his/her knees. So i guess one must be very lucky to have a person behind you accepting that (your wife
).
Also note that MS does shuttle around quite a few additional crew members on their long-haul flights who will use F-Seats. Hence there are quite a few flights where no one in F is able to enjoy the additional recline but some lucky "cheapskates" in C are...
Considering that MS F will only give you slightly better food options onboard, occasionally better lounge access (BKK) and, naturally, more miles credit depending on FFP used.
1) Choose your seat wisely (do not take the last row in C/F cabin)
2) Pray that no one is seating behind you
3) Get onboard and check if you are lucky regarding 2)
4) If unlucky, try to switch to an appropriate seat
5) Open Armrest (which includes the table)
6) Search that slot for a small handle in the back; it is not necessary to remove the table
7) Pull it & push the seat back manually
8) Expect to be asked by FAs or other pax how you did that
9) Enjoy the advanced recline
Even though the modification will make a big difference it will not give you a full flat seat. Also not having an appropriate legrest to put your legs up while trying to fall asleep might feel uncomfortable in the beginning.
The additional recline does definately reduce the seat pitch of the person, if any, behind you. While it is theoretically possible to use that seat the person behind you will virtually have your head on his/her knees. So i guess one must be very lucky to have a person behind you accepting that (your wife
). Also note that MS does shuttle around quite a few additional crew members on their long-haul flights who will use F-Seats. Hence there are quite a few flights where no one in F is able to enjoy the additional recline but some lucky "cheapskates" in C are...
Considering that MS F will only give you slightly better food options onboard, occasionally better lounge access (BKK) and, naturally, more miles credit depending on FFP used.
Last edited by Starbucks; Oct 9, 2008 at 6:31 am
Oct 9, 2008, 2:49 pm
#24
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
Programs: UA MM/1P, EK Au, QR, TK, Marriott Life Ti, Hilton Dia, IC Dia, Hyatt Glob, Accor Pt, Shangri-La
Posts: 4,521
Thanks, andrewjv, for an informative trip report. That's hilarious about the "pilot trick," although I guess it makes sense if it wouldn't be feasible with someone behind you.
Funny, too, about the alcohol. I am not surprised that they didn't enforce the dry policy, but I am quite surprised that the airline is dry. Are there liquor stores in Egypt? There are in Jordan, for example, as opposed to most other Muslim countries where it's only allowed in upscale hotels.
What are the other dry airlines, besides Saudi Arabian? Perhaps Kuwait, Royal Brunei? Who knows about Iranian airlines. I flew KamAir (Afghanistan), and I believe that they served alcohol, if I remember correctly. Perhaps Ariana Afghan Airlines doesn't?
Funny, too, about the alcohol. I am not surprised that they didn't enforce the dry policy, but I am quite surprised that the airline is dry. Are there liquor stores in Egypt? There are in Jordan, for example, as opposed to most other Muslim countries where it's only allowed in upscale hotels.
What are the other dry airlines, besides Saudi Arabian? Perhaps Kuwait, Royal Brunei? Who knows about Iranian airlines. I flew KamAir (Afghanistan), and I believe that they served alcohol, if I remember correctly. Perhaps Ariana Afghan Airlines doesn't?
Oct 11, 2008, 10:34 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
Hey folks, thanks for the patience with my million questions. Issue is, it's (really) hard to travel with scuba gear in C given the new weight limits, particularly when you're also carrying generally un-checkable photo gear. Have made new resolution not to sign onto group trips without avail of booking own travel, since I'm getting into relatively-easy-upgrade territory on a few airlines, but that's a different post.
I did OK wearing and re-wearing the same couple of pairs of shorts and shirt (luckily had brought polypropylene, which I was able to rewash using Campsuds every couple of days. Believe me, everyone else was in just as bad condition; my handheld thermometer measured nearly 45 C near Luxor one afternoon last week. Crazy.)
Carryon bags were not weighed on any flight, and I took five on MS (CAI-JFK r/t, CAI-HRG r/t, CAI-ASW); inspections were near minimal, save for passport check every ten, fifteen feet down the terminal at CAI. I had two carryons totaling something like 30 pounds (yes, I realize this is awful, but both my checked bags were under the 50-lb limits.)
Ride itself fairly uneventful. Seat pitch was generous. It wasn't much fun having no IFE, but also planned via purchase of Epson P-5000 media viewer, which served up movies and a storage site for my 30+ gigs of photos.
The only real issue? There's no individual air vent for each seat in C, only sort of an anemic air-delivery system up at the top of the cabin. I've never in my life been overheated on an international flight, but for the trip back I wore actual shorts and a tank top and was warm. It didn't help that the reading light seemed of the heatlamp variety. Food was decent, FAs very friendly and efficient.
Bags delivered in timely manner and good shape. I'd fly MS again, honestly. Bathrooms in somewhat beastly shape, but as we had a completely packed load of passengers on all legs probably to be expected. I thought about going for the upgrade but as had spent a pharaoh's fortune on jewelry and trinkets - plus US market decline - spouse and I figured we'd save the money and suck up the lesser accommodations.
(Egypt a charming country, despite heat and dirt. Locals genuinely friendly and eager to share aspects of culture. Little kids stared at Americans, smiled and waved when spoken to in English. Plus, the scuba diving is top-notch. That said, don't take the passenger train LUX-CAI; conditions execrable.)
Oh, also points for all five flights were posted to Star Alliance partner US as of this morning, necessitating zero phone calls. Delta Plat lounge at JFK pretty decent, serving up both air conditioning and a mean gin & tonic when needed. DL still in-lining luggage for MS despite new JFK-CAI route.
Didn't see anyone enjoying liquor onboard and later reflected on the generally huge and alcohol-free crowds along the Nile during the Eid festival. Was kind of nice, actually...
I did OK wearing and re-wearing the same couple of pairs of shorts and shirt (luckily had brought polypropylene, which I was able to rewash using Campsuds every couple of days. Believe me, everyone else was in just as bad condition; my handheld thermometer measured nearly 45 C near Luxor one afternoon last week. Crazy.)
Carryon bags were not weighed on any flight, and I took five on MS (CAI-JFK r/t, CAI-HRG r/t, CAI-ASW); inspections were near minimal, save for passport check every ten, fifteen feet down the terminal at CAI. I had two carryons totaling something like 30 pounds (yes, I realize this is awful, but both my checked bags were under the 50-lb limits.)
Ride itself fairly uneventful. Seat pitch was generous. It wasn't much fun having no IFE, but also planned via purchase of Epson P-5000 media viewer, which served up movies and a storage site for my 30+ gigs of photos.
The only real issue? There's no individual air vent for each seat in C, only sort of an anemic air-delivery system up at the top of the cabin. I've never in my life been overheated on an international flight, but for the trip back I wore actual shorts and a tank top and was warm. It didn't help that the reading light seemed of the heatlamp variety. Food was decent, FAs very friendly and efficient.
Bags delivered in timely manner and good shape. I'd fly MS again, honestly. Bathrooms in somewhat beastly shape, but as we had a completely packed load of passengers on all legs probably to be expected. I thought about going for the upgrade but as had spent a pharaoh's fortune on jewelry and trinkets - plus US market decline - spouse and I figured we'd save the money and suck up the lesser accommodations.
(Egypt a charming country, despite heat and dirt. Locals genuinely friendly and eager to share aspects of culture. Little kids stared at Americans, smiled and waved when spoken to in English. Plus, the scuba diving is top-notch. That said, don't take the passenger train LUX-CAI; conditions execrable.)
Oh, also points for all five flights were posted to Star Alliance partner US as of this morning, necessitating zero phone calls. Delta Plat lounge at JFK pretty decent, serving up both air conditioning and a mean gin & tonic when needed. DL still in-lining luggage for MS despite new JFK-CAI route.
Didn't see anyone enjoying liquor onboard and later reflected on the generally huge and alcohol-free crowds along the Nile during the Eid festival. Was kind of nice, actually...
Last edited by divemistressofthedark; Oct 11, 2008 at 10:49 am
Oct 16, 2008, 6:17 am
#26
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL
Programs: QF, VA, VN, BA, SQ, KC - all reds and blues.
Posts: 3,205
I flew MS from BEY-CAI-JNB in business a few weeks ago on a redemption ticket. The latter leg was in the 2 class A340.
Now, EgyptAir was a bit of a disappointment. Basically, it is economy class service with a bigger seat. On arrival in Cairo from Beirut, there was no obvious route for transit pax. We were just herded into a pen and made to wait an age for an escort to a queue for boarding passes for the onward leg. The lounge invite mentioned a choice of five lounges. I found only two of them - just a balcony with seats and free water or tinned soft drinks. Crowded, uncomfortable and, frankly, no better than the general concourse. On the plane, we had chunky seats that reclined to a non-flat position, and when the seat in front reclined it touched your knees. We had a blanket and a pillowette - nothing more. The food would have been bad for economy - a selection of cold meats and salad in rancid mayonnaise.
But, on the positive side, the A330 seat was better than in Y and the route (IST-BEY-CAI-JNB-CPT) gave me a day of sightseeing in Beirut which I wouldn't otherwise have had. And if you are paying for tickets, they are relatively cheap ways of getting status miles. But on redemption, the same price will get you much better service on certain other airlines...
Now, EgyptAir was a bit of a disappointment. Basically, it is economy class service with a bigger seat. On arrival in Cairo from Beirut, there was no obvious route for transit pax. We were just herded into a pen and made to wait an age for an escort to a queue for boarding passes for the onward leg. The lounge invite mentioned a choice of five lounges. I found only two of them - just a balcony with seats and free water or tinned soft drinks. Crowded, uncomfortable and, frankly, no better than the general concourse. On the plane, we had chunky seats that reclined to a non-flat position, and when the seat in front reclined it touched your knees. We had a blanket and a pillowette - nothing more. The food would have been bad for economy - a selection of cold meats and salad in rancid mayonnaise.
But, on the positive side, the A330 seat was better than in Y and the route (IST-BEY-CAI-JNB-CPT) gave me a day of sightseeing in Beirut which I wouldn't otherwise have had. And if you are paying for tickets, they are relatively cheap ways of getting status miles. But on redemption, the same price will get you much better service on certain other airlines...
Last edited by Mr H; Oct 17, 2008 at 4:27 am Reason: A330 instead of A340
Oct 16, 2008, 2:36 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MUC/HKT
Programs: UA1K;AAEXP;BAG
Posts: 595
Oct 17, 2008, 4:32 am
#29
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL
Programs: QF, VA, VN, BA, SQ, KC - all reds and blues.
Posts: 3,205
My mistake - the CAI-JNB was the A330 - and the seat was a chunky, not that flat seat but much better than an economy seat. The flight was overnight, but I don't recall any IFE other than overhead screens showing adverts for EgyptAir and the food was really poor. The business lounges were appalling, with no entertainment and scant refreshment. Just a seat on a sofa.
I had genuinely gone into this hoping to find a positive airline looking to improve but was saddened to find this wasn't the case. The contrast between this and a business seat on SA from CPT-FRA was like chalk and cheese.
If you are paying cash money and want a big seat and more space, then MS might be good value for those who couldn't afford business class with other carriers. But if you are wanting business class service, then look elsewhere.
I had genuinely gone into this hoping to find a positive airline looking to improve but was saddened to find this wasn't the case. The contrast between this and a business seat on SA from CPT-FRA was like chalk and cheese.
If you are paying cash money and want a big seat and more space, then MS might be good value for those who couldn't afford business class with other carriers. But if you are wanting business class service, then look elsewhere.
Oct 18, 2008, 1:13 pm
#30
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
Star Alliance may not be the best choice, either...the only U.S. based airlines for rolling over of MS miles are UA and US.
I'll probably fly DL the next time I do this route, but I'll agree - for the money this isn't an absolutely un-live-able choice.
Also, I did hear of several members of my group upgrading to 1st for US$700 on the day of the flight. FYI.
I'll probably fly DL the next time I do this route, but I'll agree - for the money this isn't an absolutely un-live-able choice.
Also, I did hear of several members of my group upgrading to 1st for US$700 on the day of the flight. FYI.
