Involuntary downgrade with KQ?

Old Jun 22, 19, 12:56 am
  #1  
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Involuntary downgrade with KQ?

Posted from the Crown Plaza Nairobi.
AF814 was late so connecting flight to Bujumbura was missed.
Rebooked on KQ464 at 16:40 but operated by Jambojet. (other options - in C - were tomorrow KQ flight at 7:20 am or RwandAir flight via EBB and KGL that arrives 20 min before JamboJet option).

So what to do?
Have you ever received a refund or compensation from KQ in this situation?
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Old Jun 22, 19, 4:26 am
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Originally Posted by flying_blue_white_red View Post
Posted from the Crown Plaza Nairobi.
AF814 was late so connecting flight to Bujumbura was missed.
Rebooked on KQ464 at 16:40 but operated by Jambojet. (other options - in C - were tomorrow KQ flight at 7:20 am or RwandAir flight via EBB and KGL that arrives 20 min before JamboJet option).

So what to do?
Have you ever received a refund or compensation from KQ in this situation?
In principle, since the misconnect is due to delay to the AF flight, it is for AF to reroute and for AF to compensate/reimburse for downgrade as per Reg 261/2004. That said, the 261/2004 reimbursement for a downgrade on the Nairobi-Bujumbura segment of a Europe to Bujumbura ticket will in all likelihood not amount to much, as they will prorate the reimbursement based on the proportion of the segment in the overall itinerary so seeing what KQ would do, if anything, makes sense. And, in any event, if it is not AF that arranged the rerouting, it would be difficult for them to be on the hook for downgrade compensation.
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Old Jun 22, 19, 4:33 am
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Don't forget to ask for original routing credit (ORC) in order to get miles for your new flight, although if you get a refund for the downgrade, you probably won't get business class miles.

Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jul 11, 19 at 9:02 am Reason: typo
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Old Jun 22, 19, 6:28 am
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
In principle, since the misconnect is due to delay to the AF flight, it is for AF to reroute and for AF to compensate/reimburse for downgrade as per Reg 261/2004. That said, the 261/2004 reimbursement for a downgrade on the Nairobi-Bujumbura segment of a Europe to Bujumbura ticket will in all likelihood not amount to much, as they will prorate the reimbursement based on the proportion of the segment in the overall itinerary so seeing what KQ would do, if anything, makes sense. And, in any event, if it is not AF that arranged the rerouting, it would be difficult for them to be on the hook for downgrade compensation.
Very interesting comments NickB because:
- I only checked my mails at the hotel at around 9 am where, indeed, AF stated in their 4:40 am mail that I was rebooked on the tomorrow KQ operated flight.
- Upon disembarking at 7 am, a KQ agent called all Bujumbura bound travellers to arrange the new flight - so yes KQ took the initiative put us on the Jambojet plane.
So basically, it's my fault (or KQ) as another option rather than the initial one (unknown at that time) was accepted? That's harsh

Also, can I claim the 600€ compensation for the delay too?
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Old Jun 22, 19, 6:33 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Don't forget to ask for original routing credit (ORC) in order to get miles for your new flight, although if you get a refund for the downgrade, yo probably won't get business class miles.
Despite having KQ code, no miles or XP can be earned when flying Jambo Jet?
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Old Jun 22, 19, 8:27 am
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Originally Posted by flying_blue_white_red View Post
Also, can I claim the 600 compensation for the delay too?
You should be able to as the rerouting offered by AF would have arrived beyond the time limits specified in the Reg in any event (assuming no extraordinary circumstances).
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Old Jun 26, 19, 11:46 pm
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
You should be able to as the rerouting offered by AF would have arrived beyond the time limits specified in the Reg in any event (assuming no extraordinary circumstances).
Thanks a lot,
Will try to claim everything at the same time!
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Old Jul 11, 19, 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
In principle, since the misconnect is due to delay to the AF flight, it is for AF to reroute and for AF to compensate/reimburse for downgrade as per Reg 261/2004. That said, the 261/2004 reimbursement for a downgrade on the Nairobi-Bujumbura segment of a Europe to Bujumbura ticket will in all likelihood not amount to much, as they will prorate the reimbursement based on the proportion of the segment in the overall itinerary so seeing what KQ would do, if anything, makes sense. And, in any event, if it is not AF that arranged the rerouting, it would be difficult for them to be on the hook for downgrade compensation.
Mail sent by AF today:

- You will get the 600
- You will get 10000 miles as a goodwill gesture
- and (using google translation) :
"I have also sent your request for reimbursement of the difference in fare between the reserved business class and the Economy class in which you have traveled, to our financial service which will not fail to return to you directly by email once the transaction has been completed."

I wonder how much it could be (ticket cost 1700 ish)? 50 maybe, 100 max or probably more?
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Old Jul 11, 19, 9:03 am
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The refund should be based on what you paid for business class versus the cost of a coach ticket purchased on the date you purchased your ticket, not a FULL Y last minute coach ticket, although if you had other segments in business class as part of the same fare component, breaking the fare is likely to greatly reduce the refund.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 1:36 pm
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Ok Guys,
Received an mail from AF this afternoon:
You will get €35,42 refund for your downgrade... eish, what a joke!
I was expecting between €50 and €100 to be honest
Thankgod, FB Platinum status is guaranteed until September 2021 (= 416 XP as of today) otherwise it would have been very frustrating.


Originally Posted by NickB View Post
That said, the 261/2004 reimbursement for a downgrade on the Nairobi-Bujumbura segment of a Europe to Bujumbura ticket will in all likelihood not amount to much, as they will prorate the reimbursement based on the proportion of the segment in the overall itinerary so seeing what KQ would do, if anything, makes sense.
Thanks a lot NickB for explaining. So just to sum up things, for a downgrade in a nonstop/direct flight, better to ask for the reimbursement, but for a 2 connecting flight trip, it's better to ask for ORC. Is that correct?

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Don't forget to ask for original routing credit (ORC) in order to get miles for your new flight, although if you get a refund for the downgrade, you probably won't get business class miles.
Thanks MSPeconomist for this precious advice - I should definitely have done this in order to get the 15 XP instead of the measly 5 credited for flying KQ's low cost airline..
A good lesson learned!
Also, would you choose to take the €800 voucher or the €600 cash compensation?
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Old Jul 20, 19, 12:34 am
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Originally Posted by flying_blue_white_red View Post
Thanks a lot NickB for explaining. So just to sum up things, for a downgrade in a nonstop/direct flight, better to ask for the reimbursement, but for a 2 connecting flight trip, it's better to ask for ORC. Is that correct?
There is an assumption here of there being an "either/or" in this case. I do not think that we can take that as established but I would start with the ORC and then ask for reimbursement later if I were in that situation so as to minimise the risk of denial of ORC. I doubt that they would go back and change the XP and miles credit retroactively if you were to later claim for reimbursement of the class difference but, yes, you never know so there is a potential risk.

Secondly, if there is an "either/or", it is not necessarily the case that you are better off going for ORC for connecting trips and reimbursement for O&D. On a connecting trip, the reimbursement will typically be pro-rated to the fraction represented by the flight segment on which the downgrade occurs. So, on a CDG-NBO-BJM-NBO-CDG, a downgrade on NBO-BJM will be only a small proportion (6%) of the overall itinerary, so 75% of not-a-lot is not going to amount to much. OTOH, if downgraded on the CDG-NBO, this represents roughly 44% of the overall itinerary, so you would get back 75% of 44%, in other words roughly a third of the price paid for your return ticket (tax excluded but you would add the tax differential, if any, to the amount to be reimbursed too). So you need to do a quick calculation based on the price of the ticket and the proportion of the flight in the overall itinerary to determine whether it is worth it or not. The more expensive the ticket and the higher the proportion of the segment in the overall itinerary, the higher the reimbursed amount will be.
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