Mar 13, 2019, 10:20 am
Last edit by: JDiver
Boeing 737 MAX 8 ET 302 registration ET-AVJ from Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to Nairobi (Kenya) with 149 passengers and 8 crew, was lost 10 March 2019 shortly after takeoff at 08:44L (05:44Z). There were no survivors.
The incident appeared similar to the 29 October 2018 crash of Lion Air 610, operated by a B38M.
7 Nov 2018: The US Federal Aviation Administration / FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive (AD note) covering the AOA within a few days, giving US carriers 30 days to comply with the AD note.
6 Nov 2018: Boeing issued revised operating instructions covering the revised MCAS used in the MAX 8, updating the MAX operations manual. See the manual update and the switches referenced. See Aviation Herald discussion for information.
10 March 2019: ET 302, operated by Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX 8 ET-AVJ departing Addis Ababa to Nairobi turned back to the airport soon after takeoff, but crashed with the loss of all aboard.
Link to BBC article.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
11 March 2019: The US National Transportation Board / NTSB has dispatched an investigation team, as have Boeing, to Addis Ababa to assist the Ethiopian investigators in determining the cause(s) of the crash. The “black boxes” (cockpit voice and the flight data recorder have been recovered.
11 March 2019: Ethiopian Airlines announced airline both “black boxes” - the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder are recovered.
11 Mar 2019: China grounded its 737 MAX 8 (not MAX 9) fleet, and a number of countries have followed suit on 12 March 2019, including the United Kingdom and the European Union.Link to New York Times article.
11 March 2019: The US FAA stated it would not ground US (AA, UA, WN) 737 MAX aircraft at this time.
Link to FAA Airworthiness Notification for USA registered B38M aircraft PDF.
Link to Wall Street Journal article.
12 March 2019: The USA and Canada are the only countries allowing the B38M to remain in operation.
13 March 2019: Ethiopian Airlines CEO Tewolde Gebremariam requests grounding of all B38M aircraft until the cause(s) of the crash of ET 302 is learned.
13 March 2019: Canada grounds Canadian B38Ms and bans B38M departures, arrivals and overflights.
13 March 2019: All USA operated Boeing 737 MAX -8 and -9 aircraft are grounded by US Federal Aviation Administration emergency order. At this time, all 737 MAX 8 are grounded until further notice.
14 March 2019: It is announced the French BEA will retrieve the data from the Ethiopian Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder.
Link to Eight things you might not know about black boxes
By Cristen Tilley, ABC Australia
15 March 2019: Aircraft manufactured Boeing plans to roll out a software upgrade for its 737 Max aircraft in 10 days. The US FAA is expected to sign off on the anti-stall modification to the MAX software 25 March. CNBC
17 Mar 2019: The French BEA stated the Flight Data Recorder data have been given to the Ethiopian Investigation Team. Borpth CVR and FDR “black boxes” have been downloaded and turned over to investigators.
17 Mar 2019 the Ethiopian Transport Minister said: "Recently, the FDR and CVR of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 have been successfully read out. Our experts and US experts have verified the accuracy of the information. The Ethiopian government accepted the information, and the cause of the crash is similar to the Indonesian Flight 610. A preliminary reported will be published in a month with a detailed analysis. We are grateful to the French Government for its ongoing support." - Aviation Herald
17 Mar 2019 Ethiopian Airlines Twitter Account (Link) posted "The total flying time of the First Officer is 350 hours. Moreover, the Pilot in command is a senior pilot who has accumulated 8,100 hours. According to ICAO regulations any CPL holder can act as F/O in multi engine jet commercial flight up on successful completion of the full Type Rating training on the type of A/C. According to ICAO, it only requires a maximum of 200HRs to hold CPL. Ethiopean airlines in its effort to enhance safety established a crew pairing policy where by a less experienced F/O flies only with highly experienced Capt and vice versa".
17 Mar 2019: “Ethiopian transport minister Dagmawit Moge told reporters on Sunday that an evaluation of the black boxes from Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET302 and Lion Air Flight JT610 showed "clear similarities." - Link to Business Insider article.
18 Mar 2019: Aviation Herald learns new information of ET 302 departure routing and airport communication, and the possibility MAX simulator training and inclusion of training relating to MCAS and the JT 610 lessons learned may not have reached all ET cockpit crew due to the simulator training requirements of six month periodicity. Link.
19 Mar 2019: The Secretary if the US Department of Transportation, of which the Federal Aviation Administration is part of, has requested the Inspector General conduct a formal audit “to compile an objective and detailed factual history of the activities that resulted in the certification of the Boeing 737-MAX 8 aircraft” as part of an ongoing review of factors related to the MAX aviation certification. Link
Boeing 737 MAX 8 registration ET-AVJ performing flight ET-302 from Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to Nairobi (Kenya) with 149 passengers and 8 crew, departed Addis Ababa's runway 07R and was climbing out of Addis Ababa when the aircraft levelled off at about 9000 feet MSL, radar contact was lost shortly after at 08:44L (05:44Z). The aircraft wreckage was found near Ejere at approximate position N8.8772 E39.2512. No survivors were found.
In a subsequent press conference on Mar 10th 2019 Ethiopian Airlines reported the crew reported difficulties and requested a return to Addis Ababa. The captain was with Ethiopian Airlines for 9 years and had about 8000 hours of flight experience, a first officer with 200 flight hours assisted, there were 35 nationalities amongst the 149 passengers. The crash site appears to be consistent with a steep dive, the aircraft is right inside the ground. The aircraft had undergone last "rigorous first check maintenance" on Feb 4th 2019. The aircraft had last operated to and from Johannesburg (South Africa) arriving back in Addis Ababa in the morning of Mar 10th 2019 before departing for the accident flight.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
In a subsequent press conference on Mar 10th 2019 Ethiopian Airlines reported the crew reported difficulties and requested a return to Addis Ababa. The captain was with Ethiopian Airlines for 9 years and had about 8000 hours of flight experience, a first officer with 200 flight hours assisted, there were 35 nationalities amongst the 149 passengers. The crash site appears to be consistent with a steep dive, the aircraft is right inside the ground. The aircraft had undergone last "rigorous first check maintenance" on Feb 4th 2019. The aircraft had last operated to and from Johannesburg (South Africa) arriving back in Addis Ababa in the morning of Mar 10th 2019 before departing for the accident flight.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
Indonesian carrier Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29 crashed into the sea soon after takeoff with the loss of all aboard, apparently due to the erroneous data from a faulty Angle of Attack sensor, which caused the MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) to assume the plane was about to stall, which activated the downward force on the Stabilizer Trim to get the nose down. Link to BBC article.
This aircraft had been written up as having a faulty AOA indicator for previous flights it had taken. It is unclear if Lion Air had performed adequate maintenance procedures after the reports or withdraw the aircraft from service until the fault could be completely cleared.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
“Instead of switching off the Stabilizer Trim the pilots appear to have battled the system.” Link
This aircraft had been written up as having a faulty AOA indicator for previous flights it had taken. It is unclear if Lion Air had performed adequate maintenance procedures after the reports or withdraw the aircraft from service until the fault could be completely cleared.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
“Instead of switching off the Stabilizer Trim the pilots appear to have battled the system.” Link
Boeing 737 MAX and MCAS: See “What is the Boeing 737 MAX Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System?”, updated November 17 to explain the MCAS and electric trim override operation, here: link.
Boeing has stated a revised MCAS is in the works, and the FAA is expected to issue an AD note when the MCAS update is done. This is expected to occur in early April, 2019.
355 B38M deliveries have been carried out through 1 March 2019, out of 5,123 orders. Link to Wikipedia B38M list of Airlines, orders and deliveries.
Boeing has stated a revised MCAS is in the works, and the FAA is expected to issue an AD note when the MCAS update is done. This is expected to occur in early April, 2019.
355 B38M deliveries have been carried out through 1 March 2019, out of 5,123 orders. Link to Wikipedia B38M list of Airlines, orders and deliveries.
Ethiopian Airlines ordered 25 Boeing 737 MAX 8 (B38M) and at the time of the crash of ET 302 on 10 March 2019. ET also operates 10 Boeing 737-700 and 16 Boeing 737-800 aircraft as part of its fleet.
Ethiopian Airlines is the flag carrier of Ethiopia, and commenced operations on 8 April 1946, expanding to international flights in 1951. The firm became a share company in 1965 and changed its name from Ethiopian Air Lines to Ethiopian Airlines. The airline has been a member of the International Air Transport Association since 1959 and of the African Airlines Association (AFRAA) since 1968. Ethiopian is a Star Alliance member, having joined in December 2011.
As of November 2017, the carrier served 105 international and 20 domestic passenger destinations and 44 cargo destinations. Ethiopian serves more destinations in Africa than any other airline. Ethiopian Airlines’ fleet consists of 106 aircraft.
- Wikipedia (link)
Ethiopian Airlines is the flag carrier of Ethiopia, and commenced operations on 8 April 1946, expanding to international flights in 1951. The firm became a share company in 1965 and changed its name from Ethiopian Air Lines to Ethiopian Airlines. The airline has been a member of the International Air Transport Association since 1959 and of the African Airlines Association (AFRAA) since 1968. Ethiopian is a Star Alliance member, having joined in December 2011.
As of November 2017, the carrier served 105 international and 20 domestic passenger destinations and 44 cargo destinations. Ethiopian serves more destinations in Africa than any other airline. Ethiopian Airlines’ fleet consists of 106 aircraft.
- Wikipedia (link)
6 Nov 2018: Boeing issued revised operating instructions covering the revised MCAS used in the MAX 8, updating the MAX operations manual. See the manual update and the switches referenced. See Aviation Herald discussion for information.
10 March 2019: ET 302, operated by Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX 8 ET-AVJ departing Addis Ababa to Nairobi turned back to the airport soon after takeoff, but crashed with the loss of all aboard.
Link to BBC article.
Link to Aviation Herald discussion.
11 March 2019: The US National Transportation Board / NTSB has dispatched an investigation team, as have Boeing, to Addis Ababa to assist the Ethiopian investigators in determining the cause(s) of the crash. The “black boxes” (cockpit voice and the flight data recorder have been recovered.
11 March 2019: Ethiopian Airlines announced airline both “black boxes” - the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder are recovered.
11 Mar 2019: China grounded its 737 MAX 8 (not MAX 9) fleet, and a number of countries have followed suit on 12 March 2019, including the United Kingdom and the European Union.Link to New York Times article.
11 March 2019: The US FAA stated it would not ground US (AA, UA, WN) 737 MAX aircraft at this time.
Link to FAA Airworthiness Notification for USA registered B38M aircraft PDF.
Link to Wall Street Journal article.
12 March 2019: The USA and Canada are the only countries allowing the B38M to remain in operation.
13 March 2019: Ethiopian Airlines CEO Tewolde Gebremariam requests grounding of all B38M aircraft until the cause(s) of the crash of ET 302 is learned.
13 March 2019: Canada grounds Canadian B38Ms and bans B38M departures, arrivals and overflights.
13 March 2019: All USA operated Boeing 737 MAX -8 and -9 aircraft are grounded by US Federal Aviation Administration emergency order. At this time, all 737 MAX 8 are grounded until further notice.
14 March 2019: It is announced the French BEA will retrieve the data from the Ethiopian Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder.
Link to Eight things you might not know about black boxes
By Cristen Tilley, ABC Australia
15 March 2019: Aircraft manufactured Boeing plans to roll out a software upgrade for its 737 Max aircraft in 10 days. The US FAA is expected to sign off on the anti-stall modification to the MAX software 25 March. CNBC
17 Mar 2019: The French BEA stated the Flight Data Recorder data have been given to the Ethiopian Investigation Team. Borpth CVR and FDR “black boxes” have been downloaded and turned over to investigators.
17 Mar 2019 the Ethiopian Transport Minister said: "Recently, the FDR and CVR of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 have been successfully read out. Our experts and US experts have verified the accuracy of the information. The Ethiopian government accepted the information, and the cause of the crash is similar to the Indonesian Flight 610. A preliminary reported will be published in a month with a detailed analysis. We are grateful to the French Government for its ongoing support." - Aviation Herald
17 Mar 2019 Ethiopian Airlines Twitter Account (Link) posted "The total flying time of the First Officer is 350 hours. Moreover, the Pilot in command is a senior pilot who has accumulated 8,100 hours. According to ICAO regulations any CPL holder can act as F/O in multi engine jet commercial flight up on successful completion of the full Type Rating training on the type of A/C. According to ICAO, it only requires a maximum of 200HRs to hold CPL. Ethiopean airlines in its effort to enhance safety established a crew pairing policy where by a less experienced F/O flies only with highly experienced Capt and vice versa".
17 Mar 2019: “Ethiopian transport minister Dagmawit Moge told reporters on Sunday that an evaluation of the black boxes from Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET302 and Lion Air Flight JT610 showed "clear similarities." - Link to Business Insider article.
18 Mar 2019: Aviation Herald learns new information of ET 302 departure routing and airport communication, and the possibility MAX simulator training and inclusion of training relating to MCAS and the JT 610 lessons learned may not have reached all ET cockpit crew due to the simulator training requirements of six month periodicity. Link.
19 Mar 2019: The Secretary if the US Department of Transportation, of which the Federal Aviation Administration is part of, has requested the Inspector General conduct a formal audit “to compile an objective and detailed factual history of the activities that resulted in the certification of the Boeing 737-MAX 8 aircraft” as part of an ongoing review of factors related to the MAX aviation certification. Link
Ethiopian Airlines: Boeing 737 Max 8 crashes on way to Kenya [ET302 ADD-NBO 10MAR19]
Mar 11, 2019, 8:24 am
#166
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: Miles & More, Amex
Posts: 678
Royal Air Maroc Suspends Boeing 737 Max-8 Jet After Ethiopian Crash
Morocco is one of several countries that have suspended use of Boeing 737 Max-8 jets after a plane crash on Sunday killed everyone onboard, including two Moroccans.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:29 am
#167
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lincoln, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 1,266
Mar 11, 2019, 8:32 am
#169
Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: UK - the nearest airport is named after a motorway !
Posts: 4,231
Came across the following website explaining the MACS funtionality quite in debt: https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...em-mcas-jt610/
Mar 11, 2019, 8:52 am
#170
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Southern California
Programs: AA EXPlat, 2.4MM; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 580
4. Every 737 pilot in the world reads about the Lion Air crash and becomes keenly aware of exactly how to react to an MCAS problem, possibly to the point where pilots might take incorrect action when a non-MCAS failure occurs.
Whatever happened here, I would be shocked if any 737 pilot would be unable to recognize and correctly react to MCAS failure just 5 months after Lion Air showed them what not to do.
Whatever happened here, I would be shocked if any 737 pilot would be unable to recognize and correctly react to MCAS failure just 5 months after Lion Air showed them what not to do.
Mar 11, 2019, 9:02 am
#171
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 103
I asked Polish LOT about their B737 MAX, they flying betwwen WAW-LHR, and they:
(google translation from polish)
One polish diplomat died in crash. But LOT is very pro Boeing if You will look at thier fleet.
Passengers' safety is our highest priority. After an in-depth analysis of all information regarding the last event involving the Boeing 737 MAX 8 in Ethiopia, we decided to continue the operation with this type of aircraft. At the same time, out of concern for the safety and comfort of Passengers, we decided to carry out additional technical inspections of all machines of this type in our fleet within the next 24 hours.
Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft in our fleet are fully operational and meet all safety requirements. Technical services monitor their technical condition on an ongoing basis, we stay in constant contact both with the aircraft manufacturer as well as with air safety agencies, including ULC and the European agency EASA. None of the institutions have issued recommendations regarding the MAXs, which means that in the assessment of these agencies, operations performed with these aircraft are completely safe.
In addition, we stay in touch with other carriers that make calls to Boeing 737, especially in Europe. Until now, no airline in the region has decided to discontinue air operations with these aircraft.
If there were any new information changing the current assessment of the situation, we will make further decisions. Once again, we emphasize that the safety of air operations is our highest priority.
Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft in our fleet are fully operational and meet all safety requirements. Technical services monitor their technical condition on an ongoing basis, we stay in constant contact both with the aircraft manufacturer as well as with air safety agencies, including ULC and the European agency EASA. None of the institutions have issued recommendations regarding the MAXs, which means that in the assessment of these agencies, operations performed with these aircraft are completely safe.
In addition, we stay in touch with other carriers that make calls to Boeing 737, especially in Europe. Until now, no airline in the region has decided to discontinue air operations with these aircraft.
If there were any new information changing the current assessment of the situation, we will make further decisions. Once again, we emphasize that the safety of air operations is our highest priority.
One polish diplomat died in crash. But LOT is very pro Boeing if You will look at thier fleet.
Last edited by headforflights; Mar 11, 2019 at 9:03 am Reason: edit
Mar 11, 2019, 9:23 am
#172
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,181
Within a few days, officials will have significantly more evidence about what happened on the Ethiopian flight. Any decision to ground will be made based on that data, and any correlations with the data from the Lion Air investigation. It will not be made out of fear or speculation. It will be made by technical experts based on actual data.
Mar 11, 2019, 11:35 am
#174
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
For those who fly Southwest, I came across this tidbit...
In November 2018, Southwest Airlines installed new AOA indicators on her Boeing 737 Max jets to prevent against erroneous sensor data that could activate the anti-stall protection system. This followed the crash of Lion Air 610.
The airline told pilots that the new indications provide continuous visual feedback to the flight crew allowing identification of erroneous AOA that could lead to un-commanded stabilizer trim actuation. Currently the Max has an AOA disagree light which provides an alert of erroneous AOA data. The AOA indicator will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present.
Southwest Airlines has the largest number of 737 pilots on the planet. They have more experience with this system than any other airline. At a minimum, regulators could mandate this fix for 737 Max planes.
In November 2018, Southwest Airlines installed new AOA indicators on her Boeing 737 Max jets to prevent against erroneous sensor data that could activate the anti-stall protection system. This followed the crash of Lion Air 610.
The airline told pilots that the new indications provide continuous visual feedback to the flight crew allowing identification of erroneous AOA that could lead to un-commanded stabilizer trim actuation. Currently the Max has an AOA disagree light which provides an alert of erroneous AOA data. The AOA indicator will provide a valuable supplemental cross-check in the event there is an erroneous AOA signal present.
Southwest Airlines has the largest number of 737 pilots on the planet. They have more experience with this system than any other airline. At a minimum, regulators could mandate this fix for 737 Max planes.
Mar 11, 2019, 11:35 am
#175
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SW WA
Posts: 3,886
4. Every 737 pilot in the world reads about the Lion Air crash and becomes keenly aware of exactly how to react to an MCAS problem, possibly to the point where pilots might take incorrect action when a non-MCAS failure occurs.
Whatever happened here, I would be shocked if any 737 pilot would be unable to recognize and correctly react to MCAS failure just 5 months after Lion Air showed them what not to do.
Whatever happened here, I would be shocked if any 737 pilot would be unable to recognize and correctly react to MCAS failure just 5 months after Lion Air showed them what not to do.
Mar 11, 2019, 12:12 pm
#177
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,508
In theory, I agree with you. However, I ventured over to airlinepilotforums.com, and there are pilots disagreeing with each other over what the right corrective action is when MCAS issues arise. This does not make me feel good that there is a clear, consistent course of action, and I'm not willing to risk that I'm on a plane with a pilot who takes the wrong action.
Mar 11, 2019, 12:26 pm
#178
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,393
What's the point of doing a technical inspection if you don't know what the problem is? If (and I do mean IF) there's a design flaw, no technical inspection would help, nor would a technical inspection detect a software problem. Assuming that the aircraft has been maintained properly, this seems to me like it's just a PR move. Even if there's a maintenance problem, I'm skeptical that it would be detected by the same airline maintenance team that has been doing the routine maintenance all along on this bird, especially when it's a relatively new aircraft type in their fleet.
Mar 11, 2019, 12:42 pm
#179
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: YEG
Programs: Table scraps from Aeroplan and AmEx Plat
Posts: 896
I had to shuffle my schedule a bit last week to get a client in to sign some documents, because had some time off and decided to book a last moment trip to Africa.
He was delayed in Toronto and missed THIS flight. I think they had him on the news here in Canada.
Edit: Global News had another guy actually.
He was delayed in Toronto and missed THIS flight. I think they had him on the news here in Canada.
Edit: Global News had another guy actually.
Last edited by bambinomartino; Mar 11, 2019 at 12:48 pm
Mar 11, 2019, 12:48 pm
#180
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Earth, and often worse
Programs: BAEC Silver, A3 Gold
Posts: 2,217
Remember: Take-offs are optional while landings are mandatory ...