MB_again

Some interesting points made, and I guess a bit of an eye-opener...

I take back the point on spitefulness, it seems KQ have a combined per-flight and per time period quota, which is why when they released a set number of seats, it opened up availability on most flights and once these released seats were booked up no matter the date, the seat availability vanished on all flights. Seems unlikely to involve manual filtering / tinkering...

And on extortion, I guess that's just how business is conducted in the region when there is no real competition, it's take it or leave it and for as long as there will be sufficient takers this will continue!

flying_blue_white_red

Before last year FB changes it was 7500 miles per sector, so you should see it as an improvement!

Yes very true, KQ was forced to reduce from 42 flights weekly to 14 weekly by TZ upset about a ban on TZ tourist vans at JKIA. Thank God it went back to normal otherwise OP would have cried with so limited frequencies as KQ would have surely increased the fares like it was the case with the demise of Air Uganda on the EBB-NBO.

The BASA on Kenya – TZ allow:
- Unlimited frequencies on any point in Kenya to Zanzibar
- 35 on Zanzibar - Nairobi
- 42 on Nairobi - Dar es Salaam
- 42 on Dar es Salaam - Nairobi
- 42 on Nairobi - Kilimanjaro
- 42 on Kilimanjaro - Nairobi
- 14 on Kisumu - Mwanza
- 14 on Nairobi - Mwanza
- 14 on Mwanza - Nairobi
- 14 on Mombasa - Kilimanjaro
- 14 on Kilimanjaro - Mombasa
- 14 on Mwanza - Kisumu
- 14 on Kisumu - Mwanza
- Any aircraft size

I was wondering the same, by any chance do you know why?
I mean how come they fly to Bujumbura - Burundi for a while, but not on the busy and lucrative DAR-NBO?

While Kenya (along with Rwanda and Ethiopia which are fully cooperative) signed the agreement, it has yet to be implemented there. However TZ should take this opportunity to join the group and at least sign it as it will benefit Air Tanzania in the near future! Not sure from what is the feud from Tanzania towards all East African Community (EAC) in many sectors...

MB_again

Let me guess - you're a Corporate traveler who doesn't care about inflated fares, in fact the higher the fare classes the more miles earned?

simons1

This happens in many places. I have just completed a 3 week trip:

* My London-Dubai-Johannesburg/Nairobi-Dubai-London ticket (26 hours flying) was $865

*My Johannesburg-Nairobi ticket on SAA (4 hours flying) was $460 (KQ was more)

All Emirates flights were full, but I counted only 42 people on SAA.

Goaguy

I am not sure, we can only speculate. But when Fastjet introduced the DAR-NBO route and dropped the prices, KQ followed. I guess TC might not want to take on KQ in an open price war right now when there are other routes currently not served at all. And as you say yourself, I dont think there is that much traffic on the NBO route now compared to the past. Also, I have a feeling that a lot of the passengers flying DAR-NBO on KQ are connecting on to destinations such as BOM, CAN and JNB, so they would not choose TC.
BOM and CAN are in the TC pipeline, should happen mid this year. I would be surprised if JNB didnt happen also sooner or later.

nanyang

What a ridiculous rant though. USD350 return for this flight is not expensive, especially considering that this is not exactly a low-cost environment we are talking about here.

I'm sure it would be great if airlines were selling every seat below cost - although not sure about the future of the airline industry in that case.

Some info on KQ's track record of profitability here:
https://corporate.kenya-airways.com/...areholders/en/

Goaguy

KQ not being profitable doesn't necessarily mean we can conclude their tickets are fair or under-priced. It could also be a sign of mismanagement of the company and too high expenditure.
Actually the strike at NBO airport the past days are partially rooted in employees of Kenya Airports thinking KQ are being mismanaged and mis-spending funds.

nanyang

You - of course - have valid points.

All I'm saying is that KQ is hardly making great money...

My argument is that the original complaint does not make much sense. The quoted price is not that high. For a full-service airline, selling USD350 return tickets mixed with connecting traffic on a 665km sector in an environment that is not exactly low cost - well, I don't think that can be a huge money maker. This comes with the caveat that I have no idea re KQ's CASK for that sector.

simons1

Whether KQ is making money is irrelevant. Any losses more likely to be down to mismanagent or corruption. It doesn't mean that paying customers should foot the bill.

As for it being a high cost environment. Really? How? Employees get some of the lowest wages on earth, and the cheap/nasty Chinese built airports like the one in Nairobi are hardly expensive luxury stuff.

Flights in Africa have always been expensive due to lack of competition and inefficient local operators. I presume that is why they have always tried to keep competition from the likes of FastJet at arms length.

nanyang

Interesting thoughts there. I would think it's pretty important for any airline to try and sell fares that make them money on average.

Some challenges that might impact costs in some jurisdictions in Africa:
- Small markets, low volumes (low disposable incomes, so cannot stimulate demand via lower fares)
- Fuel costs? State monopoly in various markets?
- Difficulty of repatriating funds from various countries
- I assume typically airport fees and charges are high
- Salaries are one thing, but how about labour productivity?
- Security, insurance
- I would also assume local operations - sales, ground handling etc. - in various countries can be quite expensive (also considering low volumes)

simons1

Agreed - in effect it's a totally inefficient market.

KQ isn't alone in that - SAA is also a basket case. Poor management decisions by political appointees, corruption, too many free fares for ANC cronies and so on.

typical

Funnily enough, DAR-NBO-JNB-NBO-DAR on KQ is not only significantly cheaper than DAR-JNB-DAR on SA, it can also be only marginally more expensive than DAR-NBO-DAR on KQ. I held a return flight for under $340 last week. (Schedule meant I had to fly SA.)

simons1

Quite normal. That's why BA flights are usually significantly cheaper with an ex-EU tag on than from LHR.

typical

Well yes... but the ex-EU leg is usually rather shorter than the long haul leg it's attached to. Whereas NBO-JNB is slightly longer than DAR-NBO...

flying_blue_white_red

OP got his answer, maybe it's time to lock the thread!