May 19, 2016, 12:11 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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An EgyptAir Airbus A320, registration SU-GCC from Paris Charles de Gaulle (flight MS804 departing 18 May) to Cairo with 56 passengers, 2 flight crew, 5 cabin crew and 3 security personnel, lost contact over the Mediterranan Sea about 280km (151nm) from the Coast of Egypt at 02:30 local time (00:30 UTC) on 19 May 2016. Greece's Civil Aviation Authority reported radar contact with the aircraft was lost about 2 minutes after the aircraft was handed off from Greek to Egyptian Air Traffic Control.
At 12:30 CEST (10:30 UTC) 19 May 2016 France's President Hollande announced that the aircraft has crashed while flying over the Mediterranean Sea in Egyptian Airspace.
At 19:00 local time (17:00 UTC) 19 May 2016 EgyptAir posted on their Facebook page that wreckage of the missing aircraft was found near Karpathos Island. This was later denied by the head of the Greek air safety authority. EgyptAir's VP subsequently retracted the statement that debris of the aircraft had been found and said they were mistaken.
On the morning of 20 May 2016 The Egyptian Armed Forces informed EgyptAir that they have found first debris from the missing aircraft operating flight MS804 around 295 KM from the Egyptian coastline.
On 20 May 2016 The Aviation Herald published ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) messages which suggested there was smoke in a lavatory followed by smoke in the avionics bay.
On 22 May 2016 Egypt's President confirmed that the Petroleum Ministry has provided a submarine that could reach 3,000 meters under water in an attempt to retrieve the two black boxes.
On 23 May 2016 the French BEA and Egypt's Civil Aviation Authority, in response to media reports of an emergency call on Egypt's frequency, stated that no such communication has been received on any frequency.
On 1st Jun 2016 Egypt's Civil Aviation Authority reported that the French vessel "Laplace" has located pings presumed to originate from one of two black boxes. The French BEA confirmed that Egyptian Authorities have confirmed a "signal that may come from one of the recorders" of flight MS-804.
On 16 Jun 2016 the vessel "John Lethbridge" managed to retrieve the cockpit voice recorder in several stages as the CVR had been damaged.
On 17 June 2016 the vessel "John Lethbridge" managed to recover the memory module of the second black box, the flight data recorder.
List of nationalities of passengers on Board:
30 Egyptian
15 French
2 Iraqi
1 British (dual nationality with Australia as confirmed by AU government)
1 Belgian
1 Kuwaiti
1 Saudi
1 Sudanese
1 Chadian
1 Portuguese
1 Algerian
1 Canadian
+ 10 crew of unknown nationality.
Useful, reliable links:
Aviation Herald (Avherald) article on MS804
BBC article on MS804
MODERATOR NOTE
If you are posting media reports please summarize or quote a sentence or two and link to the source whenever possible.
When discussing this tragedy please bear in mind that these matters are always personal and should be treated with respect. Family members and other affected parties may be following this thread.
Moderation of this thread will be strictly "to rules". Moreover, because of how quickly this thread is moving, it is simply not possible to contact each individual poster whose post may be deleted or edited. We ask for your patience and understanding, and thank you for your cooperation.
For those who are eligible there is a thread in OMNI/PR if anyone wishes to speculate possible links with any terrorist group or discuss politics.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni-...s-missing.html
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EgyptAir MS 804 on 5/19/16, Paris to Cairo, Missing
May 23, 2016, 5:54 pm
#182
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May 23, 2016, 7:23 pm
#183
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Now the Egyptians are saying the plane was on course when it disappeared from radar, which contradicts the Greek ATC data.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36365256
It's important to remember that the Egyptians have a strong motive to lie. If the regime can make the argument that this was terrorism (even if it wasn't), then they'll say that terrorist threats abound. This will be used to justify Sisi's crackdown on civil liberties, on the grounds that the world is too dangerous for people to have human rights.
We've already seen Egyptian dictators lie about plane crashes for political purposes. Remember EgyptAir 990, when the co-pilot committed murder/suicide by flying the plane into the sea? To this day, the Egyptians claim that the NTSB was wrong because no Egyptian would ever commit such an act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36365256
It's important to remember that the Egyptians have a strong motive to lie. If the regime can make the argument that this was terrorism (even if it wasn't), then they'll say that terrorist threats abound. This will be used to justify Sisi's crackdown on civil liberties, on the grounds that the world is too dangerous for people to have human rights.
We've already seen Egyptian dictators lie about plane crashes for political purposes. Remember EgyptAir 990, when the co-pilot committed murder/suicide by flying the plane into the sea? To this day, the Egyptians claim that the NTSB was wrong because no Egyptian would ever commit such an act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
May 23, 2016, 9:44 pm
#184
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Sorry, but the Egyptians were criticised for not immediately stating that the cause of the Metrojet A321 crash was a terrorist attack, on the basis that they would lie so as to protect the tourist industry.
Now, after a misreporting of the actual statement by the Egyptian Minister for Civil Aviation; local news sources quoted him as, pretty much mirroring, a later statement by the French Government that no cause could be ruled out, either technical issues or terrorism.
See the 2:35pm update here: http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...dair-plun.aspx
& compare with:
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...tAir-cras.aspx
The Egyptian statement was reported by one of the international news outlets as being to the effect that a n act of terrorism was seen as the basis of the investigation and this was then relayed as official by other outlets; including the BBC's live coverage.
It now seems that, no matter what the Egyptians say, they will be condemned as having some reason to lie about the loss of the aircraft.
Now, after a misreporting of the actual statement by the Egyptian Minister for Civil Aviation; local news sources quoted him as, pretty much mirroring, a later statement by the French Government that no cause could be ruled out, either technical issues or terrorism.
See the 2:35pm update here: http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...dair-plun.aspx
& compare with:
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...tAir-cras.aspx
The Egyptian statement was reported by one of the international news outlets as being to the effect that a n act of terrorism was seen as the basis of the investigation and this was then relayed as official by other outlets; including the BBC's live coverage.
It now seems that, no matter what the Egyptians say, they will be condemned as having some reason to lie about the loss of the aircraft.
May 23, 2016, 9:58 pm
#185
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Past and present.
It will take a long time to get to the bottom of this. Sadly, even longer if Egypt officials do not like where facts lead them.
May 24, 2016, 1:06 am
#186
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Let's try and keep political discussion to where it belongs, OMNI.
NewbieRunner
on behalf of the moderator team
NewbieRunner
on behalf of the moderator team
May 24, 2016, 4:48 am
#187
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Human remains from the EgyptAir passenger jet that crashed last week suggest there was an explosion on board, according to a senior Egyptian forensics official, amid differing accounts of the plane’s final movements.
May 24, 2016, 5:05 am
#188
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Aviation-safety experts are voicing concerns that Egypt may be mishandling debris collected from the downed EgyptAir plane, potentially compromising evidence that could help determine why the Airbus Group SE A320 crashed.
...
People in close contact with the investigation are concerned that potentially vital evidence is being compromised. Photographs released by Egypt's military of the salvage operation show personnel handling items without wearing protective clothing, and placing them on unprotected surfaces.
...
People in close contact with the investigation are concerned that potentially vital evidence is being compromised. Photographs released by Egypt's military of the salvage operation show personnel handling items without wearing protective clothing, and placing them on unprotected surfaces.
May 24, 2016, 10:52 am
#189
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Recall SR111 where only one (1) body was found intact. All others were ripped into pieces.
At high speed the water surface is as hard as rock.
Germanwings crash in the Alps: they found around 4500 body parts. In every coffin there were 20-40 body parts.
Last edited by PetzLUX; May 24, 2016 at 11:35 am
May 24, 2016, 11:28 am
#190
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This sounds like a balanced account of the current situation from CNN.
EgyptAir Flight 804: Conflicting reports over final moments
EgyptAir Flight 804: Conflicting reports over final moments
May 24, 2016, 11:58 am
#191
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The conflicting accounts of the aircraft's final minutes are so perplexing to me. Let's assume both the Greek and Egyptian authorities are being honest and candid. Does anyone know how they could both end up with such conflicting views on headings/turns, etc.? Maybe radar data is less accurate than I imagine it to be.
May 24, 2016, 12:33 pm
#192
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I could see a tactic to steer opinion one way- even if they know their is a risk of being wrong eventually- in order to manage perceptions for a few days, weeks or months.
and finally you are hearing statements BEING REPORTED BY PRESS AND OTHERS... the mis-attributions and distortions create these apparent 'conflicts'.
Here is a simple one- there was an ACARS report (acars is a system was designed to report engine health, but also reports other errors) that contained information that indicated a mishap (smoke in lav, avionics, etc). This has been reported as "MS804 sent out a distress call" as well as "there was smoke in the engine".
The hardest thing for the public, in this day and age of millisecond satisfaction, is waiting.
May 24, 2016, 2:11 pm
#193
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I do not actually assume honesty and candor. My question to those who understand this stuff a lot better than I do is whether it's plausible that both the Greeks and the Egyptians are being honest and candid, and yet they interpret their ATC data in such a conflicting way.
May 24, 2016, 2:37 pm
#194
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I do not actually assume honesty and candor. My question to those who understand this stuff a lot better than I do is whether it's plausible that both the Greeks and the Egyptians are being honest and candid, and yet they interpret their ATC data in such a conflicting way.
The greek militarily primary radar says one thing, they show a 90 and a 320 turn... OK, lets say this is true.
The Egyptians say "we show it disappearing at 37k feet" (but they or others fail to explain that this data is ADSB aka 'secondary' data)
Are people confused? do headlines scream "greeks and Egyptians disagree"?
Or are they both being candid and accurate based on the information they are discussing?
"ATC Data" is not 'one thing'... there are likely multiple primary military radar data sets that speak to what was seen. Greece we know; what about israel? Egypt's military? US? I expect in the full investigation there will be meetings, briefings, and the investigators will be satisfied with the conclusions from only a limited public airing of one data set. As with many of the recent commercial losses, many countries dont want it known what they can see or for that matter cant see or what they missed that night....
May 24, 2016, 2:41 pm
#195
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I do not actually assume honesty and candor. My question to those who understand this stuff a lot better than I do is whether it's plausible that both the Greeks and the Egyptians are being honest and candid, and yet they interpret their ATC data in such a conflicting way.