Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Ryanair
Reload this Page >

Why can US passport holders not do OLCI on Ryanair?

Why can US passport holders not do OLCI on Ryanair?

Old Dec 23, 2008, 8:11 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LHR/LGW
Programs: LH *G (SEN), VS Silver, BA Silver, Goldpointplus Gold, Marriott Silver, Accor silver, *ACP
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by Aviatrix
dg4255 I really do hope that someone will mount a legal challenge about this - but unless and until this rule is successfully challenged my advice to non-EU passport holders would be to stick to the rules.
Imagine that someone successfully mounted a legal challenge to FR about this, and imagine that person won the court case.

FR's reaction would most likely be to add a 50p foreign-passport holders fee to all pax.

Think wheelchair fees.
beardedgeologist is offline  
Old Dec 23, 2008, 9:21 am
  #17  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
Originally Posted by potfish
This statement surprised me, so I did a bit of research to see if it's true and could only find evidence to the contrary, e.g. http://uk-immigration.ukresident.com...n/uk-visas/29/
You were looking at the wrong thing. Non-EU spouses do have the right of free movement. What they don't have is an automatic right of settlement in the country of which their spouse is a citizen... because national law takes precedence over EU law when it comes to a country's own citizens. So, for example, a Russian married to a UK citizen has the right to accompany their spouse everywhere else in the EU, but does not have an automatic right of settlement in the UK.

Forgetting the families angle, legal residence in the UK is not enough to get you into other EU countries without needing a visa (first hand experience of helping a UK-resident Zimbabwean friend get a visa for France) so it's expected that Ryanair should check non-EU passport holders have the required documentation for their destination.
But they could do this at the gate - that's what other airlines do. There is no need to require someone to go to a check-in desk just to have their passport examined.

The argument is then whether it's fair for them to charge only the affected passengers for this extra procedure, or spread the cost amongst everyone.
Airlines are required to examine ALL passengers' travel documents - it's just the thoroughness that varies. EU passports tend to get a cursory glance. US and Canadian passports tend to get a slightly less cursory glance. The only passports that need to be examined more closely - and only for flights that are not intra-Schengen - are those of nationals who need visas. And even that only tends to take a maximum of half a minute.

There simply is no justification for making non-EU nationals check in at the desk. But, as the previous poster said, a successful legal challenge would probably mean that everybody would have to pay a "foreign passport fee" in the same way that everybody is now paying a wheelchair fee when flying Ryanair.
Aviatrix is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 2:09 am
  #18  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 749
I will donate five pounds to this case
bizclassboy is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 4:25 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: UA, AA, AGR
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by potfish
This statement surprised me, so I did a bit of research to see if it's true and could only find evidence to the contrary, e.g. http://uk-immigration.ukresident.com...n/uk-visas/29/

Forgetting the families angle, legal residence in the UK is not enough to get you into other EU countries without needing a visa (first hand experience of helping a UK-resident Zimbabwean friend get a visa for France) so it's expected that Ryanair should check non-EU passport holders have the required documentation for their destination.

The argument is then whether it's fair for them to charge only the affected passengers for this extra procedure, or spread the cost amongst everyone.
This is only true between the UK, Ireland and the Schengen area. Within the Schengen area, people get a single visa that entitles them to enter all the Schengen countries, so if they get on a plane in one Schengen country they can be assumed to have the right to land in another, and no passport check is necessary. It would be more reasonable if Ryanair only charged this fee for flights between the Schengen area and other countries (and between other countries).

That said, since when do Ryanair need a reason for any fee? Just keep it in mind, along with all the other relevant fees and transport costs, when you compare fares. Ryanair still works out cheaper than any alternative in many if not most cases.
lexande is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 4:44 am
  #20  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 749
It also works out mega expensive when they ditch you far from home because they decided not enough people are on the flight and they cancel it
bizclassboy is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 5:14 am
  #21  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: *A
Posts: 1,390
Originally Posted by lexande
That said, since when do Ryanair need a reason for any fee? Just keep it in mind, along with all the other relevant fees and transport costs, when you compare fares. Ryanair still works out cheaper than any alternative in many if not most cases.
That logic helps with regard to their checked luggage fee, where it does cost them extra for you to check it, and other things, like their CC fee.
However, in this case, it does not apply, as FR could let you do OLCI. Hence it is just a way to get money, which I think is just wrong.

Last edited by sds1493; Dec 24, 2008 at 5:16 am Reason: Fixing quote
sds1493 is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 7:57 am
  #22  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: UA, AA, AGR
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by sds1493
That logic helps with regard to their checked luggage fee, where it does cost them extra for you to check it, and other things, like their CC fee.
However, in this case, it does not apply, as FR could let you do OLCI. Hence it is just a way to get money, which I think is just wrong.
There are plenty of other cases where Ryanair charge fees with little relation to their actual costs. The "card processing fee", which gets tacked on if you pay with anything other than an Electron card, is charged per-flight, rather than per-transaction, even though the actual card processing cost to them is the same regardless of how many flights a transaction covers. It works the other way too, with many flights having "no taxes" even though Ryanair in fact still has to pay some tax on them. I think it is best to just ignore whatever excuse Ryanair gives for charging what they do, and decide whether or not to fly with them based on the total door-to-door cost.
lexande is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 8:05 am
  #23  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: *A
Posts: 1,390
Originally Posted by lexande
There are plenty of other cases where Ryanair charge fees with little relation to their actual costs. The "card processing fee", which gets tacked on if you pay with anything other than an Electron card, is charged per-flight, rather than per-transaction, even though the actual card processing cost to them is the same regardless of how many flights a transaction covers. It works the other way too, with many flights having "no taxes" even though Ryanair in fact still has to pay some tax on them. I think it is best to just ignore whatever excuse Ryanair gives for charging what they do, and decide whether or not to fly with them based on the total door-to-door cost.
The more you pay, the more it costs them in processing fees. They're way of charging is unfair, but it does cost them more. This doesn't, and they have no right to charge.
sds1493 is offline  
Old Dec 24, 2008, 11:35 pm
  #24  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,638
Originally Posted by lexande
Within the Schengen area, people get a single visa that entitles them to enter all the Schengen countries
Not neccessarily. There are still various territorial visas issued which do not grant the right to travel to all Schengen states but rather only to a single state.
B747-437B is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2008, 6:34 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Neither here nor there
Programs: UA Slvr, DL Slvr, AA plt, HH LTD, MR tit/LTP at least two of those buy 10 get 1 free coffee cards
Posts: 3,421
Back towards the original topic...

I use OLCI on ryanair all the time (meaning 12+ times in the past few years) and I have a US passport. I have never so much as gotten a second look at the gate.
aroundtheworld76 is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2008, 3:49 pm
  #26  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MSN/HOU
Programs: DL Silver (0.239 MM), DL SkyClub Life, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,107
Originally Posted by aroundtheworld76
I use OLCI on ryanair all the time (meaning 12+ times in the past few years) and I have a US passport. I have never so much as gotten a second look at the gate.
Has this been out of DUB or other stations?
uavking is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2008, 9:44 pm
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Neither here nor there
Programs: UA Slvr, DL Slvr, AA plt, HH LTD, MR tit/LTP at least two of those buy 10 get 1 free coffee cards
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by uavking
Has this been out of DUB or other stations?
DUB, LGW, LTN, GRO, HHN and CIA that I can recall.
aroundtheworld76 is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2008, 7:07 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA EC Gold
Posts: 9,236
Originally Posted by B747-437B
Not neccessarily. There are still various territorial visas issued which do not grant the right to travel to all Schengen states but rather only to a single state.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that logically these seems very counterintuitive.

We're talking about Schengen tourist visas (and not longer-term residence permits), right?

I find it difficult to conceive that any state that is a signatory to the Schengen Agreement would or even could issue you a visa to enter its own state but no others in the Schengen Zone.

And how would this be enforceable? I guess it wouldn't, technically, right?

How very odd.
ajax is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2008, 7:48 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routičres, PCR
Posts: 13,609
It may be counter-intuitive but's true.

I posted details of different Schengen visas (IIRC A, B, C, D, D+) in another FT thread - sorry, I'm away and only have web access for a short time, so time for Search is limited.
Roger is offline  
Old Dec 31, 2008, 1:35 pm
  #30  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,638
Originally Posted by ajax
I find it difficult to conceive that any state that is a signatory to the Schengen Agreement would or even could issue you a visa to enter its own state but no others in the Schengen Zone.

And how would this be enforceable? I guess it wouldn't, technically, right?
The most common reason these are issued is when shortage of time or resources do not permit the issuing consular post to run a full SIS check on the individual, who nonetheless is able to present a prima facie case justifying emergency travel. In that instance, a consular officer may be authorised to issue a limited territorial visa, but not a full Schengen visa (which by treaty requires an SIS check to be conducted).

Furthermore, individuals who may be inadmissable to one or more Schengen states may not be issued Schengen visas, but rather only territorial visas. Similar conditions exist for those who have very narrowly defined purpose of visit (eg. an otherwise ineligible person who must visit a Schengen country to testify in a court case).
B747-437B is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.