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-   -   Thomas Cook Enters Compulsory Liquidation (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-european-airlines/1988392-thomas-cook-enters-compulsory-liquidation.html)

Concerto Sep 22, 19 11:43 pm

I was surprised a thread about Thomas Cook’s difficulties hadn’t been started before.. I guess I should have started one! I was getting newsfeeds all weekend about the probability Thomas Cook wouldn’t make it to Monday. With this and Monarch a couple of years ago, the last icon of travel from my youth has disappeared.

We can’t blame the old fashioned bricks and mortar travel agent model for this, it worked for a good number of years since the turn of the century. Many travel agents have done a smart job of reinventing themselves for this new age. The real issue here is total managerial incompetence, the hallmark of everything these days because top jobs seem to be awarded in unclear and dishonest ways. A couple of BBC links, apologies if already provided. The second one is quite interesting because it provides a potted history of the company:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49791249

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49789073

synergistic Sep 23, 19 12:06 am

Oof. Have (had) PE tickets booked for 6 October to get us home from Europe. Chase benefits claiming that they changed their terms in August, removing supplier insolvency from the list of covered issues. Too tired to figure anything else out, but it does appear that the only flights that will be operating will be getting folks back to the UK, and we'll need to make other arrangements. So it goes...

Concerto Sep 23, 19 12:12 am

You mean your credit card doesn’t even protect you any more? You see, this bankruptcy thing is becoming so ridiculous that nobody believes it any more, whether companies or individuals. Really, it wouldn’t surprise me if the credit cards start withdrawing these protections.

I don’t give Condor in Germany much hope for success, don’t reckon they’ll last long now unless Lufty step in and do something. And let’s not forget Adria Airways, which looked like it was at the end too a couple of days ago (nothing compared to the size of Thomas Cook, mind you).

Love them or hate them, it’s going to be Ryanair and easyJet running the show going forward.

Gig103 Sep 23, 19 12:47 am


Originally Posted by Concerto (Post 31552892)
I was surprised a thread about Thomas Cookís difficulties hadnít been started before.. I guess I should have started one! I was getting newsfeeds all weekend about the probability Thomas Cook wouldnít make it to Monday. With this and Monarch a couple of years ago, the last icon of travel from my youth has disappeared.

We canít blame the old fashioned bricks and mortar travel agent model for this, it worked for a good number of years since the turn of the century. Many travel agents have done a smart job of reinventing themselves for this new age. The real issue here is total managerial incompetence, the hallmark of everything these days because top jobs seem to be awarded in unclear and dishonest ways. A couple of BBC links, apologies if already provided. The second one is quite interesting because it provides a potted history of the company:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49791249

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49789073


Originally Posted by synergistic (Post 31552924)
Oof. Have (had) PE tickets booked for 6 October to get us home from Europe. Chase benefits claiming that they changed their terms in August, removing supplier insolvency from the list of covered issues. Too tired to figure anything else out, but it does appear that the only flights that will be operating will be getting folks back to the UK, and we'll need to make other arrangements. So it goes...

Is that under trip insurance? Not delivering your vacation package or flight seems like a very clear case for a chargeback. I guess the difference being if you can get other non-refundable costs refunded?

SK AAR Sep 23, 19 1:07 am

Indeed, I believe the poster is talking about insurance coverage provided by Chase - I doubt Chase would be able to revoke (in general) the possibility of a charge back in case of insolvency of the vendor.

tecate55 Sep 23, 19 1:29 am


Originally Posted by transportprof (Post 31552570)
Can anyone blame this on the 737 Max?

If anything, it helped them out: travellers had fewer other options for holidays, but TC had its own planes and could charge more while enjoying better loads.

the 737MAX grounding will make repatriation a bit harder since other airlines soaked up a lot of charter aircraft and have incorporated them into their regular schedules.

Bohinjska Bistrica Sep 23, 19 1:38 am

Apparently 40 aircraft have been chartered by the CAA to repatriate those affected. A fairly reasonable number notwithstanding the 737 MAX issues causing a shortage.

Thoughts with those who will lose their jobs over this. I hope there will be a reasonable resolution for at least some of them if parts of the business can be salvaged, but I fear that it will be a bad outcome for the majority.

Internaut Sep 23, 19 1:38 am


Originally Posted by Concerto (Post 31552938)
You mean your credit card doesnít even protect you any more? You see, this bankruptcy thing is becoming so ridiculous that nobody believes it any more, whether companies or individuals. Really, it wouldnít surprise me if the credit cards start withdrawing these protections.

Oh, you can believe it in some literal sense. My suspicion is someone like Fossum will step in and buy it whole, once the structural problems with the company have been socialised (i.e. the unemployment has been paid and all current/future (as in already paid for) holidays/flights have been wiped off the books).


Originally Posted by Concerto (Post 31552938)
I donít give Condor in Germany much hope for success, donít reckon theyíll last long now unless Lufty step in and do something. And letís not forget Adria Airways, which looked like it was at the end too a couple of days ago (nothing compared to the size of Thomas Cook, mind you).

I understand Condor are fundamentally a good business, so hopefully they will be bought by some one like LH. However, it might make sense for them first to go under (so any issues with the business can be socialised, future promises wiped off the books and so on).


Originally Posted by Concerto (Post 31552938)
Love them or hate them, itís going to be Ryanair and easyJet running the show going forward.

Add Jet2 to that list. They're a proper package holiday company, in a similar vein to Thomas Cook, and their business is in rude health.

My overall point of my response? That's just capitalism for you. It's a brutal old world.

I have my fingers crossed that a lot of the staff will take their statutory redundancy payment and get offered a job (possibly with a "thing" called Thomas Cook) before they've had time to spend it.

largeeyes Sep 23, 19 1:44 am


Originally Posted by iflyjetz (Post 31552779)
Wow. I hadn't heard anything about them having financial difficulties. Makes one wonder how many more European airlines are teetering on the edge of insolvency.

It's been in the news for the last year or so. This isn't a surprise to pretty much anyone and had been expected.

speed.skater Sep 23, 19 1:52 am


Originally Posted by Concerto (Post 31552938)
I donít give Condor in Germany much hope for success, donít reckon theyíll last long now unless Lufty step in and do something.

LH's hands are tied.

They've made a few attempts over the last few years to repurchase Condor. But it seems unlikely due to the restrictions LH would have to accept in order to get approval from antitrust authorities.

Competitors like FR (including Lauda) aren't in the best of shape. Germania just collapsed earlier this year.

Personally, I think it's unikely LH group buys DE. If a buyer is found, I'd expect it to be somebody else.

flyer4512 Sep 23, 19 2:06 am

They are done, all flights are cancelled

speed.skater Sep 23, 19 2:10 am


Originally Posted by flyer4512 (Post 31553125)
They are done, all flights are cancelled

No, part of the discussion was about DE. For now, at least, all DE flights are operating as scheduled. No cancellations.

irishguy28 Sep 23, 19 2:49 am

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by transportprof (Post 31552570)
Can anyone blame this on the 737 Max?

Given that they operated an almost all-Airbus fleet (85 Airbus, 31 Boeing), and had no orders for any Boeing 737 Maxes - but then they wouldn't, as they lease aircraft rather than buying - then no.

irishguy28 Sep 23, 19 2:55 am


Originally Posted by tecate55 (Post 31553054)
If anything, it helped them out: travellers had fewer other options for holidays, but TC had its own planes and could charge more while enjoying better loads.

Thomas Cook only owned 5 out of its 116 aircraft; the rest were leased from a total of 38 leasing companies.


Originally Posted by Reuters


Here is a summary of the aircraft operated by Thomas Cook Airlines via four affiliated carriers (source: IBA).

Thomas Cook Airlines UK

———————————-
  • Airbus A320-200 3
  • Airbus A321-200 35
  • Airbus A330-200 8
Total 46

Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia

————————————————
  • Airbus A321-200 8
  • Airbus A330-300 3
Total 11

Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics (Spain)

———————————————————
  • Airbus A320-200 6
Total 6

Condor (Germany)

————————
  • Airbus A320-200 7
  • Airbus A321-200 14
  • Airbus A330-200 1
  • Boeing 757-300 15
  • Boeing 767-300ER 16
Total 53

Grand total 116


Concerto Sep 23, 19 2:59 am

Some interesting comments above. I did not know that Ryanair was not in good shape. Maybe that's just in Germany, but I don't know enough about it. And I had forgotten about Germania, that was a real shame. We will just have to see what happens with Condor. I seem to remember it was always struggling somehow, so I don't think the future will be easy.

And indeed, Jet2 is a major player in the UK now and is a pretty decent airline, I have heard. I had forgotten about them (but somehow remembered FlyGlobeSpan, another embarrassing collapse). But the bell has tolled for all those companies that were part of my young life in the 80s and 90s: Danair, British Caledonian, Air UK, bmi British Midland, Monarch Crown Service/Monarch, and now Thomas Cook. Sorry for the unfocused ramble.


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