irishguy28

Germany enforces the same rules as all other Schengen member states.

FRA's role as a transfer hub here is irrelevant; the common Schengen rules apply to all passengers entering the Schengen area, regardless of how or where they enter, and regardless of how many other passengers transferring on purely international itineraries there may be at any given airport.

Concerto

Yes, I meant August 2020, which is when my UK passport expires. Does that mean I can't cross any borders in the last 6 months of its validity? Because if we renew it early, the remaining days, weeks or months will not be added to the new passport. It's already expensive enough to renew a passport and I don't want to give those thieves any more money than they deserve. We've wandered a bit away from the real purpose of this thread, and while it may be the traveller's responsibility to make sure his documents are in order it's pretty hard to keep abreast of the minefield of changes and peculiarities with this sort of thing.

UKtravelbear

It just depends on the country where you visit

For example for USA there is no extra time needed as long as it covers your visit. Ditto for Canada and Japan. For South Africa it's 30 days validity after your departure (though some immigration officers say it's 6 months!). India it's 180 days.

So no wonder people are confused and add to that the possible need for ETAs or can you get a visa on arrival and do you need a 'letter of invitation' ...

This is probably as good an initial guide as any

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice

plus of course TIMATIC which has already been referred to.


So with my current passport I can use it for the US until March 2021 but for Europe I'd need a new one for any trips after next February (assuming no deal provisions apply, if we leave with a deal I have no idea!)

redrob

Often1: I believe I completely understand the issue!

I really do have over two decades' airline experience of dealing with immigration authorities. In fact, I also started using the old TIM manual back in the early 70s, when it was a 300 page A5 book with a pale blue cover, printed in Amsterdam and updated every month, when countries like the USA merited over a dozen pages of closely typed text all on their own. I clearly remember the relief felt when a hybrid TIMATIC was first introduced a decade or two later, even though it needed complicated long and precise codes to be entered into the check-in systems before you got your answer. Fortunately these days it is more integrated into the back end of standard DCS transactions, but it still doesn't guarantee to pick up every nuance of potential "transgression".

But I don't agree that fines and other consequences are not the passenger's issue - technically, airlines (and I would imagine pretty much every major one) write into their Conditions of Carriage that passengers are indeed liable for any costs derived from their failure to hold correct documentation. Whether or not airlines actually pursue the repayment of said costs is subject to their own willingness or lack of processes to do so. I have never heard of traffic right contract negotiations being conditional on an obligation on the airline to perform 100% document checks. Obviously airlines want to avoid tricky and embarrassing situations (the withdrawal of landing rights has been known to be used by some countries as a threat in extreme cases of non-compliance), so will do their best to perform basic checks, but they are only doing so as a safety net for their own protection and benefit, and not because of any legal obligation.

I think we must therefore agree to disagree!

B747-437B

In fact, the exact opposite is the case. Document checks on behalf of the receiving government are considered extraterritorial acts and they can only take place when bilaterally agreed between the countries (eg. pre-clearance). This is why consular messages to airlines to deny passengers are merely "advisory" in nature.

GUWonder

davidj1

Indeed. One would think if airlines are checking pax entry requirements using this third party system, airlines would advertise this to pax as they book or on their website so people can self check entry requirements well before arriving and possibly being denied passage.

LondonElite

I'll wager that the reason they don't do that is to avoid the blame situation. "Well, I checked TIMATIC, which you told me was perfect, and the answer I got was..."

irishguy28

Much easier for the airlines to push all responsibility (and costs) for immigration compliance on to the passenger via the Conditions of Carriage which the passenger accepts when they buy a ticket!

LondonElite

Precisely!

Often1

Just as border authorities have pushed the responsibility off onto carriers.

jpschoubert

Wow much more complex than anticipated. All agree for this precise reason there is what appears to be an unresolvable flaw.

GFrye

Travelers are ultimately responsible for making sure that their travel documents fulfill applicable and published rules and regulations.
Nothing "unresolvable" about that.

Often1

Nothing Unresolveable.
Nothing flawed.

The contract to which pretty much every traveler agrees makes him solely responsible for having in hand the proper documents required for his destination and any transit or transfer points along the way.

oliver2002

Most of the passengers travelling each day manage nicely to take care that their documents are in order... if it was such a serious problem disrupting daily operations airlines would have adopted a different system.