lhrsfo

I wonder if the issue of not flagging the passport arose because Americans use dates the wrong way around. So, for example, most of the World, including Schengen and, presumably, Condor would read 10/9/19 as 10 September 2019, whereas an American would read it as October 9 2019, It would be very easy for the passport expiry date to be transposed so that, when typed in, it appears valid when it's not.

tkwetina

chrisboote

This was my first thought upon starting to read this thread, and then OP says it's 72 days (which would have put it squarely inside the first two weeks of September) means my suspicion this is the case grows stronger
9/10/19, 9/11/19, and 9/12/19 are juts asking for confusion between The World and the US

Grog

Somehow it's possible for the Bundespolizei, hence it would be possible for the airline to provide maximum available info on a screen at time of booking and anytime thereafter prior to flight. A final determination is certainly complex, but presenting information for the traveler to sift through wouldn't be.

B747-437B

This is why the ICAO standard is DD-MMM-YYYY where the Month is spelled out in 3-letter abbreviation rather than left as numeric value.

alpenrose

What is TIMTIC and where can I access the site?
Thank you

Often1

It is "TIMATIC" and you may access it cost-free at any number of sites. Here is one:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...aspx?i=TIMATIC

You may access TIMATIC at other locations, but make certain that you are not being redirected to a commercial visa service. Also, be careful to complete all of the fields correctly as minor differences may sometimes affect important details. Simply put, double-check your entries.

nancypants

Snuggs

Which is why last month the boss and I sat in the SGN "penalty box" for three hours. Yours truly entered my VN visa info correctly, but entered the Mrs expiration date backwards. The airline contacted SGN authorities, who politely declined to make an exception. Ultimately the airline decided they could actually check our bags through to ORD, which meant that we didn't need to "enter" VN, but we would have to wait till QR came in at SGN to issue onward boarding pass.

My fault, and I was prepared to taxi four hours to accommodate my booboo. As it seems to me that we neither have a constitutional right to leave the US, nor one to enter another country, it's up to me to get those ducks in an order. I fell flat that day.

Snuggs

This tip was worth the price of admission. Thank you!

redrob

This is not the first time that the question of "whose responsibility is it to check docs" has cropped up and surely won't be the last. Sometimes the OP receives the correct reply from the majority of FT members that it is their responsibility, but often refuse to accept it! Fortunately that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Having previously been in the airline industry for many years and liaising with UK Border Force over refusals and deportees, I'd like to add my take on the subject....

1. The responsibility for having valid documentation for ALL countries being flown to or through is ALWAYS that of the passenger. Period. Sorry to all those who think otherwise.

2. Airlines have absolutely NO legal obligation to check that the documents are valid. The fact that they do check is PURELY to prevent any costs or fines being levied on said airline due to any immigration transgressions. It obviously could potentially save the passenger a lot of inconvenience and expense, but please understand that they are not doing it for their own protection and not for altruistic reasons! It's hardly surprising when you consider that some authorities, e.g. Saudi Arabia during the Hajj, fine airlines on a sliding scale based on the aggregate number of transgressions, with potential fines of up to $50,000 per passenger, even where a passenger travels a day later than the shown (in Arabic) date on the visa. The grounding of aircraft, or withdrawal of traffic rights is also a threat that can be used! Many an argument is held at check-in desks when passengers are told they can't travel and some even offer to sign some sort of indemnity/disclaimer in case of problems, but in the case of my airline, this was never really an option due to the potential difficulties of actually reclaiming costs.

3. If a passenger is refused entry into any country, the incoming airline is legally obliged to make arrangements for the offending passenger to leave that country as directed by the authority. This does NOT mean picking up the costs, even though the airline will be presented with a bill for any detention costs or fines. If a passenger does not hold a ticket for the journey as directed by the authority, they will have to provide one. However, if the passenger already has a ticket for that return or onward flight, they will use it and more than likely waive any rebooking fees. If they don't have a ticket, the airline will possibly chase the passenger for repayment of said ticket/detention costs/fines at a later date.

4. As previously posted, deportation is NOT the same as entry being refused. It is a common misuse of the word, but there is a very big difference between deportation and refusal. Deportation commonly occurs after a foreign national has legally been in a country for some time, has overstayed their permitted time, has broken other immigration laws (working illegally etc.) or has been released from having served a prison sentence. In all of these cases, depending on the country involved, either that country's authorities will pay for the ticket, or the airline that brought that passenger into the country will have to provide one.

Dudemon

Dougg

SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME AND MY KIDS - Different outcome.
Flight SFO to FRA on United. Wife and two kids. At SFO we presented our passports to 3 or 4 different people in UA. Boarded plane, arrived in FRA. I might have the order wrong but it seems to me you pass we had to present our passports to two more officials (customs) before we reached boarder control and were allowed in enter Germany. At that time we told "There is a problem". We were told the kinder's passports would expire while we were in Germany. (We didn't know kid's passports were only good for 5 years.) We were allowed entry and told we would not have any problem traveling in Germany with expired passports. But we would have to go to the American consulate to obtain a temporary passport in order for my children to leave the country.

Often1

While I am certainly glad that this worked out for you, nobody should presume that this will work the same for them.

UA screwed up by boarding the child and German immigration authorities chose not to enforce passport validity requirements as to the child. Had the UA staff checked all passports as they are supposed to do, you (or at least the child) would never have left SFO.

dliesse

From a legal standpoint, I don't disagree with anything that's been said. It does seem to me, though, that if the trip was purchased through a travel agency then the agency has an ethical obligation to advise to passenger of the requirements. What we don't know is whether there was any effort made.

In the long run yes, the passenger is fully responsible -- just as when I prepare your tax return you are 100% responsible for any mistakes I might make. Most passengers, unfortunately, aren't as cognizant as the denizens of these forums and they rely on the advice of their travel "partners".