Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Other European Airlines
Reload this Page >

Norwegian Air stability through summer?

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Norwegian Air stability through summer?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 31, 2019, 12:24 am
  #226  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
I think many people miss the point when they talk about fuel hedging; it really isn't a bet where you try to make money, but you just want a level of predictability in relation to your operating costs.

1Q 2019 presentation gives the following figures:
- 53% of H1 2019 at USD681
- 38% of FY 2019 at USD680

Doesn't sound aggressive to me.
nanyang is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 5:18 am
  #227  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Originally Posted by nanyang
I think many people miss the point when they talk about fuel hedging; it really isn't a bet where you try to make money, but you just want a level of predictability in relation to your operating costs.

1Q 2019 presentation gives the following figures:
- 53% of H1 2019 at USD681
- 38% of FY 2019 at USD680

Doesn't sound aggressive to me.
They are playing in the futures markets. When one is trading in the futures markets, they are not only required to put up capital in order to open a position, they are also required to put additional money into their account when their position moves against them (ie they get a margin call).

In Norwegian's case, it isn't about the percentage of fuel usage that they've hedged; it's about the amount of capital required to maintain those positions and the range of gains/losses that are possible with one's position size.

Here's why I stated that Norwegian is overhedged. It is because Norwegian doesn't have any spare capital to hedge even one pound of jet fuel.
At the end of the first quarter, Norwegian had 3.1B NOK of equity (note that this was after a 3B NOK capital raise in mid-March). At 1.5B NOK of equity, bondholders can immediately demand full payment on their bonds which would trigger immediate liquidation of the entire company.
If you review 2019's monthly traffic reports, you'll see that Norwegian had anywhere from 183M NOK to 1.047B NOK of unrealized gains from hedging. That's some very volatile swings in just four months. The April report had 183M NOK of unrealized gains. I would anticipate an unrealized loss on hedge positions at the end of May - I don't know where the number will fall, but if it's in excess of 1B NOK, that would likely cause the company's capitalization to fall below the 1.5B NOK bond covenant requirement.
Those hedging gains and losses go directly against a company's equity.

What Norwegian is doing is akin to someone who has very little money to their name and $10 in their pocket walking into a casino and playing blackjack at the $5 table.

In both cases, the positive and negative swings in capital will be excessively large. And just like the gambler with $10 in his pocket, Norwegian will eventually get wiped out when they hit a losing streak and have to supply additional capital to cover futures margin calls.

Norwegian is in no financial position to be able to hedge; they should not have any fuel hedges with the small amount of capital they have at their disposal.

Edit: what I should have originally stated is that Norwegian Air is overhedged relative to their available equity capital.
Position sizing is extremely important in futures trading, and it appears that no one in Norwegian management envisioned the downside risk of a decline in oil futures. Here's an article on position sizing in futures: https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-ca...-trade-1031082

Last edited by iflyjetz; May 31, 2019 at 5:44 am
iflyjetz is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 6:41 am
  #228  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
At the same time, they do have an airline to run. They have to buy fuel no matter what.

If fuel prices start moving to the wrong direction and you're 100% exposed to those price movements in the immediate term, isn't that putting your capital at risk as well?
nanyang is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 7:41 am
  #229  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Originally Posted by nanyang
At the same time, they do have an airline to run. They have to buy fuel no matter what.

If fuel prices start moving to the wrong direction and you're 100% exposed to those price movements in the immediate term, isn't that putting your capital at risk as well?
Most airlines no longer hedge. It's been shown to cost more over the longer term to hedge rather than just accept spot pricing and adjust ticket prices up or down when fuel prices move considerably.
iflyjetz is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 7:49 am
  #230  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,158
Originally Posted by iflyjetz
Most airlines no longer hedge. It's been shown to cost more over the longer term to hedge rather than just accept spot pricing and adjust ticket prices up or down when fuel prices move considerably.
What are you talking about?

Code:
Breaking City News
April 29, 2019 / 3:53 PM / a month ago
TABLE-Jet fuel hedging positions of European airlines

6 Min Read

    LONDON, April 29 (Reuters) - The following table shows the percentage of
planned jet fuel consumption hedged by European airlines to protect themselves
against price fluctuations, and the baseline price. 
    The figures are based on company quarterly and annual results or company
statements.
    
 Company           Disclosure  Period                     Hedging     Price
                   date                                   percentage  
 Air France KLM    20/02/2019  2018                               60  $651/tonne
                                                                      
 (price after                  2019                               59  $693/tonne
 hedge, based on                                                      
 forward curve at                                                     
 15 February                                                          
 2019)                                                                
                               2020                               33  $717/tonne
                               Q4 2018                            59  $683/tonne
                               Q1 2019                            61  $658/tonne
                               Q2 2019                            61  $686/tonne
                               Q3 2019                            61  $708/tonne
                               Q4 2019                            55  $717/tonne
 EasyJet           20/11/2018  6 months to 31 March 2019          69  $567/tonne
                               Full year to 30 Sept 2019          65  $571/tonne
                               Full year to 30 Sept 2020          45  $654/tonne
 Flybe             14/11/2018  H2 2018/19                       96.9  $606/tonne
                               H1 2019/20                         85  $718/tonne
 IAG*              28/02/2019  Q1 2019                            98  n/a
                               Q2 2019                            86  n/a
                               Q3 2019                            79  n/a
                               Q4 2019                            69  n/a
                               Q1 2020                            56  n/a
                               Q2 2020                            47  n/a
 Lufthansa         14/03/2019  Full year 2018             79 (10.8    $666/tonne
                                                          mln t)      
                               Full Year 2019             76 (11 mln  $698/tonne
                                                          t)          
                               Q1 2019                    82 (2.4     $661/tonne
                                                          mln t)      
                               Q2 2019                    81 (3 mln   $695/tonne
                                                          t)          
                               Q3 2019                    77 (3.0     $709/tonne
                                                          mln t)      
                               Q4 2019                    65 (2.6     $722/tonne
                                                          mln t)      
 Norwegian Air     08/01/2019  H1 2019                            52  $681/tonne
                                                                      
                               H2 2019                            22  $680/tonne
 Ryanair           04/02/2019  Fiscal year 2019                   90  $583/tonne
                               Q1 fiscal year 2019               n/a  $547/tonne
                               Q2 fiscal year 2019               n/a  $547/tonne
                               Q3 fiscal year 2019               n/a  $624/tonne
                               Q4 fiscal year 2019                90  $625/tonne
                               Fiscal year 2020                   90  $709/tonne
                               Q1 fiscal year 2020                90  $717/tonne
                               Q2 fiscal year 2020                90  $718/tonne
                               Q3 fiscal year 2020                90  $723/tonne
                               Q4 fiscal year 2020                90  $667/tonne
                               Q1 fiscal year 2021                13  $628/tonne
                               Fiscal year 2021                    3  $628/tonne
 SAS               29/01/2019  Feb-Apr 2019                       96  $650-$700/
                                                                      tonne
                               May-July 2019                      99  $701-$750/
                                                                      tonne
                               Aug-Oct 2019                       68  $650-$700/
                                                                      tonne
                               Nov 2019 - Jan 2020                24  $601-$649/
                                                                      tonne
                               Feb-Apr 2020                       37  $650-$700/
                                                                      tonne
 Finnair           24/04/2019  H1 2019                            76  n/a
                                                                      
                               H2 2019                            69  n/a
 Wizz              30/01/2019  Fiscal year 2019 (3                82  $618-$672/
                               months)                                tonne
                               Financial year 2020 (12            53  $639-$700/
                               months)                                tonne
https://uk.reuters.com/article/airli...-idUKL5N227513
oliver2002 is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 8:40 am
  #231  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,418
Iflyjetz is referring to US airlines which are the most profitable in the world. Several years ago, now AA CEO Doug Parker proved that hedging oil is generally disasterous for an airline. That's because the hedges are so costly. You lose a lot of money when oil prices go down, you lose some money when oil prices are stable, and you often lose money even when oil prices go up! The only time you make money is when prices skyrocket. It's kind of like playing the slot machines in a casino: the odds are always heavily in the house's favor. Even if you manage to make big money on a hedge -- like Southwest famously did earlier this century -- it almost always comes back to bite you.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/...dges-agai.aspx

When oil prices started to fall, WN's biggest problem was coming up with cash to pay the additional collateral on their hedge. Fortunately, with their good credit rating, they were able to borrow the money. Norwegian would not be so lucky

I have no idea why European airlines would still continue to engage in this foolish hedging behavior.

If Norwegian fails this summer or fall, it will almost certainly be because of hedging losses or credit card holdbacks. You can't run an airline with no money.
iahphx is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 8:56 am
  #232  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,158
Originally Posted by iahphx
I have no idea why European airlines would still continue to engage in this foolish hedging behavior.
The US3 (who don't hedge) only turned around their business recently and are not really known for brilliant strategy.
GUWonder likes this.
oliver2002 is offline  
Old May 31, 2019, 11:01 am
  #233  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Originally Posted by oliver2002
The US3 (who don't hedge) only turned around their business recently and are not really known for brilliant strategy.
I didn't realize that European airlines still hedged; as IAHPHX pointed out, the US airlines learned a while back that it's a fool's errand. That's probably a large part of the reason why European airlines are struggling so much financially. And if the price trend continues to decline, there may be several European airline failures this year.

Further, after 9/11, the big 3 had to liquidate their fuel hedges due to the capital requirements to keep them in place. Hedges aren't cheap.
iflyjetz is offline  
Old Jun 2, 2019, 11:11 pm
  #234  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
Originally Posted by iflyjetz
I didn't realize that European airlines still hedged; as IAHPHX pointed out, the US airlines learned a while back that it's a fool's errand. That's probably a large part of the reason why European airlines are struggling so much financially. And if the price trend continues to decline, there may be several European airline failures this year.

Further, after 9/11, the big 3 had to liquidate their fuel hedges due to the capital requirements to keep them in place. Hedges aren't cheap.
I believe there are good reasons why airlines might choose to do fuel hedging. Agreed that smaller airlines might not have the resources to have a hedging strategy in place.

I would tend to think that most medium / large airlines globally hedge at least some of their fuel price exposure - even if (some of) the US majors don't.

I'm not entirely convinced by the claim that fuel hedging is "a fool's errand" or that it is a key issue for European airlines at the moment. You might have good reasons to hold such a view, but I don't understand this.

It's not different from trying to hedge your currency or interest rate exposure. You just want to have a certain degree of predictability over the cost of inputs (vs. trying to 'make money').
nanyang is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 3:20 am
  #235  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Originally Posted by nanyang
I believe there are good reasons why airlines might choose to do fuel hedging. Agreed that smaller airlines might not have the resources to have a hedging strategy in place.

I would tend to think that most medium / large airlines globally hedge at least some of their fuel price exposure - even if (some of) the US majors don't.

I'm not entirely convinced by the claim that fuel hedging is "a fool's errand" or that it is a key issue for European airlines at the moment. You might have good reasons to hold such a view, but I don't understand this.

It's not different from trying to hedge your currency or interest rate exposure. You just want to have a certain degree of predictability over the cost of inputs (vs. trying to 'make money').
The problem with trying to hedge with commodity futures contracts is that they are normally in 'backwardation' … where the cost of (insert commodity here) is higher in the future than it is on the spot market. There are a few times that commodities go into 'contango' … where the future cost of the commodity is lower than the present spot price, but that's rare and is only going to occur when the commodity price is very high on the spot market and is usually declining in price in the present.

Fuel hedging is always a losing game in the long term because of the way that futures are priced (backwardation). Even the legendary oil trader Andrew Hall proved that a couple of years ago when he blew up his hedge fund on an incorrect directional bet on the price of oil.

Can airlines hedge fuel? Sure, but they'll lose money in the long term by doing so, and can draw down a large amount of capital in the short term if they are heavily hedged when prices drop. I already posted the large swing in the value of Norwegian's oil hedges this year. The fact that unrealized gains were almost the entire company's equity (book value) should tell one that this is a company that cannot afford to hedge oil prices. Going back to the example of a blackjack player, one can 'afford' to lose some money at the $5 blackjack table if they've got $1000 in their pocket. But one that has $10 in their pocket cannot afford to play $5 blackjack because it only takes a couple of hands that go against the player for that player to be wiped out.

Right now, oil prices are again falling. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-p...010514590.html It probably won't take much more of a price decline to completely wipe out Norwegian's capital. I don't know the oil price level where Norwegian's completely insolvent, but the monthly traffic data for May will give us a better idea of how much money Norwegian lost on their fuel hedges in May. And make no mistake; they lost a decent chunk of money on their fuel hedges in May.
iflyjetz is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 3:41 am
  #236  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
Originally Posted by iflyjetz

...
Same argument could be used against insurance. Most likely airlines are going to 'lose money' paying for insurance as well.

You could equally argue that a 50% of fuel price increase in the coming months could wipe out Norwegian's equity if they have no fuel hedges in place.
nanyang is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 5:52 am
  #237  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,418
Originally Posted by nanyang
Same argument could be used against insurance. Most likely airlines are going to 'lose money' paying for insurance as well.

You could equally argue that a 50% of fuel price increase in the coming months could wipe out Norwegian's equity if they have no fuel hedges in place.
You have to think of fuel as something you will self-insure. In theory, fuel hedging is a great idea -- if only you could buy fuel hedges at a price that made any rational sense at all. You simply can't. Think of it like insuring your brand new $500 cell phone. If a year's insurance cost $20, it would be a no-brainer. But what if it cost $300? You'd probably want to self-insure. That's fuel hedging, and why most of the profitable airlines don't do it any more.
iahphx is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 9:31 am
  #238  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,638
Originally Posted by ucdtim17
Likely planning to fly CDG-OAK in late Sept but I've just been waiting and watching, assuming cheap premium would remain available (with possible fire sale pricing at some point) but improbably, discount premium has disappeared for a bunch of dates and it's just Flex at this point. Seat map looks like 17/35 filled for the date I'm eyeing. I'm hoping the price drops back at some point to ~$800 but if it's staying at $1,179, we may consider another option (connecting through MAN on MT is $550 for what looks like a similar premium product).
I definitely bet wrong that I didn't need to purchase early for late September; CDG-OAK on 9/26 is up to $1,400 with premium cabin 25 of 35 premium seats full at this point.

Discount premium (~$800) still available for the first half of the month; late September appears busier than early for some reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ucdtim17 is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 9:52 am
  #239  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,773
What should one do to protect against loss if purchasing a Norwegian ticket in the coming months?

My husband and I will be buying a one-way transatlantic flight originating in CPH, probably in the next two months, and most likely only a couple of weeks in advance. I usually purchase the insurance offered by DY when buying the ticket but I believe this is primarily to cover a potential cancellation by pax for a non-refundable flight due to illness and I doubt it covers the airline's insolvency.

Is any particular credit card better than another to protect against loss (I have both a US AmEx Cent and an IDC AmEx Platinum, the latter of which I think may have better travel insurance).

In past years, one was always cautioned to purchase a flight with at least one night's hotel booked because [EU?] travel insurance will cover a loss due to an airline's bankruptcy only if the trip was booked as a "package" (which required at least one night hotel). But we don't need a hotel so would only be booking a one-way flight.
SusanDK is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2019, 11:53 am
  #240  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Originally Posted by nanyang
Same argument could be used against insurance. Most likely airlines are going to 'lose money' paying for insurance as well.

You could equally argue that a 50% of fuel price increase in the coming months could wipe out Norwegian's equity if they have no fuel hedges in place.
You're comparing one item with a low fixed cost (insurance) to a high variable cost (hedging).

And frankly, fuel costs are input costs for airlines; those costs should be passed on to customers. If fuel prices rise by 50%, airline ticket prices should rise to cover the increased fuel costs. The air travel industry isn't a charity operation and margins are razor thin - the appropriate business decision is to raise prices when input costs rise. Or the airline can sell their product at below cost and eventually go out of business.
iflyjetz is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.