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Norwegian Air stability through summer?

Norwegian Air stability through summer?

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Old Feb 11, 19, 3:25 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Emirates is trying to grab EY pilots too.
Etihad have an excess of pilots and have agreed to loan them to Emirates.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel...tes/734032002/
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Old Feb 11, 19, 8:19 am
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Originally Posted by iahphx View Post
Not only did they embrace a dubious concept, but they did it at a break-neck pace from secondary airports on tertiary routes where their prospects were the bleakest.
... and their rapid, initial transatlantic expansion was using a new(-ish) aircraft model with lots of kinks that needed to be worked out and a maintenance partner that wasn't prepared for the amount of work.
While the frequent B787 maintenance issues have largely been addressed by now, it affected their reputation.
Lately they've also tried a number of "Ryanair-style" routes from small airports, but that seems to have failed badly, based on the route closures.
Their Argentinian boondoggle is unlikely to help things either.

Last edited by GFrye; Feb 11, 19 at 8:25 am
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Old Feb 11, 19, 9:17 am
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Booked on Norwegian in late May from Tampa to Gatwick and then in June from Rome to Newark. Big family trip. Saw the decent fares and jumped all over it. Praying and hoping they are still in business in a few months. The alternative will not be fun and certainly not cheap.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 7:58 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I wouldn't say this is the end of a death spiral in the airline industry. But some may say that it's rather telling that Norwegian pilots are prime recruiting targets for airlines facing pilot shortages for even some equipment already in hand.
I see that I phrased that very poorly; sorry about that. What I meant is that this is what an airline that's in a death spiral looks like. Attempts to raise capital, selling off assets, attempting to shrink rapidly.
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Old Feb 11, 19, 8:12 pm
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Originally Posted by wf789 View Post
Far from ATL, but lowest since 2012

15 years chart
Thanks; I looked for a longer chart than what Bloomberg had but no luck. The latest closing price was ~100NOK. The continuing price drop undermines the secondary stock offering of 3B NOK.
The share dilution of an additional 30M shares (x 100 NOK, before underwriting charges) increases the number of outstanding shares from 45M to 75M. For what it's worth, Norwegian did a secondary stock issuance a year ago.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 6:01 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by GFrye View Post
... and their rapid, initial transatlantic expansion was using a new(-ish) aircraft model with lots of kinks that needed to be worked out and a maintenance partner that wasn't prepared for the amount of work.
While the frequent B787 maintenance issues have largely been addressed by now, it affected their reputation.
I've piloted the 787. It's a great plane; the kinks were worked out long ago on the airframe. The problem that Norwegian and a number of other carriers had with the 787 was strictly with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines. Those airlines who have GE GEnx engines have not experienced any engine problems.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 6:57 am
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Originally Posted by iflyjetz View Post
I've piloted the 787. It's a great plane; the kinks were worked out long ago on the airframe. The problem that Norwegian and a number of other carriers had with the 787 was strictly with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines. Those airlines who have GE GEnx engines have not experienced any engine problems.
I wasn't referring to the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 blade cracking problems, which were first discovered by ANA in 2016.

I was referring to the problems they experienced before, during, and immediately after their longhaul launch.
The first two 787s were initially supposed to be delivered in 2012, but the delivery of the first aircraft was pushed to April 2013 and was then delayed because Boeing halted deliveries in January 2013 until the battery problems had been worked out. That forced Norwegian to wet lease replacement aircraft in order to start their longhaul service in May 2013, and they then had to continue wet leasing replacement aircraft when their two 787s were grounded shortly after delivery in 2013 because of multiple electrical and hydraulic issues.

September, 2013, article:
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...lish-airlines/

Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief Ray Conner traveled to Norway and promised Wednesday better support for Norwegian Air’s fleet of 787 Dreamliners after a series of reliability issues that repeatedly grounded flights this month. Conner met with Norwegian Air Chief Executive BjÝrn Kjos in Oslo in an effort to smooth relations with the airline, which has been vocal about its dissatisfaction.

On the same day, LOT, the flag carrier of Poland, said it had to temporarily ground two Dreamliners after inspections revealed fuel filters missing from the Rolls-Royce engines on the aircraft.

London-based airline consultant John Strickland said Norwegian’s problems are likely exacerbated by the punishing flight schedule on which it operates its two 787s. And he said that on the 787, the normal teething pains expected in any new airplane program are “compounded because there’s so much new technology, so many new systems in this aircraft.”
And the problems persisted into 2015 (June 2015 article):
https://www.thelocal.no/20150603/nor...hour-delay/amp
Norwegian Air’s troubles with its fleet of Boeing 787 Dreamliners have flared up again, with 250 passengers this week delayed for a near-record 70 hours waiting to fly from San Fransisco to Oslo.

[...]

In December 2013 and the first half of last year, Norwegian suffered repeated delays as it attempted to pioneer bringing the budget concept to long-haul flights, starting routes between Norway and Thailand, and Norway and the US.

Norwegian struggled partly because the planes were so new that Boeing had yet to identify common faults and learn to fix them quickly, and partly because with just five Dreamliners, Norwegian lacks either backup aircraft in the US and Thailand, or sufficient staff on the ground to easily solve problems.

It was hoped that these issues could be ironed out with time. The fact that a year on, the airline is still facing problems raises the possibility that the problems could be more deep-rooted.

Last edited by GFrye; Feb 12, 19 at 7:24 am
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Old Feb 12, 19, 8:26 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by fox13weather View Post
Booked on Norwegian in late May from Tampa to Gatwick and then in June from Rome to Newark. Big family trip. Saw the decent fares and jumped all over it. Praying and hoping they are still in business in a few months. The alternative will not be fun and certainly not cheap.
It's impossible to know for sure, but I think your odds are good. I'd be more worried about AFTER summer.

I just hope you paid little for your flights. I have family members (who didn't consult me) who bought tickets on Norwegian when they could have gotten the same deal (or better) on one of the major carriers. As most folks here know, if you're a little flexible and you watch the fares on sites like secretflying and theflightdeal, it's usually not hard to get a cheap transatlantic fare on a major carrier (and, of course, there are many ways for Americans to game the credit card sign-ups for free flights). So now my family members have to worry about their trip for no good reason. That's why no one else should be buying Norwegian tickets now unless the deal is truly incredible. Which, of course, will be ANOTHER revenue problem for Norwegian!
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:28 am
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Well I took the gamble. Two tickets premium economy to CDG was about $2700 when I booked it. I book on the Norway site. Current price on Delta would be about $4200 in coach and $6000 in premium select. Itís a huge saving and my previous experience with Norwegian was excellent. I remember worrying about them going broke last summer but it worked out OK. Hopefully it will be the same this year but if it fails I will accept I took a gamble knowing the risks. Credit card will cover a failure of the carrier.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 11:17 am
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This link is a bit dated, but CC companies are withholding payments to Norwegian: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...-air-6jbqn5n02

Good for ticket holders who paid with CC, but terrible for cash management I imagine.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 11:45 am
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Originally Posted by Hornetcoach View Post
Well I took the gamble. Two tickets premium economy to CDG was about $2700 when I booked it. I book on the Norway site. Current price on Delta would be about $4200 in coach and $6000 in premium select. Itís a huge saving and my previous experience with Norwegian was excellent. I remember worrying about them going broke last summer but it worked out OK. Hopefully it will be the same this year but if it fails I will accept I took a gamble knowing the risks. Credit card will cover a failure of the carrier.
But it won't cover the cost of a new last-minute ticket if Norwegian folds.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 3:53 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by GFrye View Post
I wasn't referring to the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 blade cracking problems, which were first discovered by ANA in 2016.

I was referring to the problems they experienced before, during, and immediately after their longhaul launch.
The first two 787s were initially supposed to be delivered in 2012, but the delivery of the first aircraft was pushed to April 2013 and was then delayed because Boeing halted deliveries in January 2013 until the battery problems had been worked out. That forced Norwegian to wet lease replacement aircraft in order to start their longhaul service in May 2013, and they then had to continue wet leasing replacement aircraft when their two 787s were grounded shortly after delivery in 2013 because of multiple electrical and hydraulic issues.

September, 2013, article:


And the problems persisted into 2015 (June 2015 article):
Thanks; I didn't realize that Norwegian had been operating the 787 that long.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 4:40 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Hornetcoach View Post
Well I took the gamble. Two tickets premium economy to CDG was about $2700 when I booked it. I book on the Norway site. Current price on Delta would be about $4200 in coach and $6000 in premium select. Itís a huge saving and my previous experience with Norwegian was excellent. I remember worrying about them going broke last summer but it worked out OK. Hopefully it will be the same this year but if it fails I will accept I took a gamble knowing the risks. Credit card will cover a failure of the carrier.
I'm sorry, but giving Norwegian $2700 to fly two people across the Pond isn't a "savings" in any language I know. Good luck.

Originally Posted by bman1002 View Post
This link is a bit dated, but CC companies are withholding payments to Norwegian: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...-air-6jbqn5n02

Good for ticket holders who paid with CC, but terrible for cash management I imagine.
I've only been surprised by one airline bankruptcy in my entire life and it was the "original" (actually the second) Frontier Airlines when their primary credit card processor foolishly (IMO) increased withholdings. I have no idea how similar the current situation is to that, but it's obviously not a good thing for Norwegian.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=4637492&page=1
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Old Feb 12, 19, 6:30 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by bman1002 View Post
This link is a bit dated, but CC companies are withholding payments to Norwegian: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...-air-6jbqn5n02

Good for ticket holders who paid with CC, but terrible for cash management I imagine.
That protects card issuers. But, consumers have nothing to worry about. If the carrier goes bankrupt, the consumer is statutorily entitled to a refund.

The card issuer bears the risk of loss. That is why processors will increase the holdback when a vendor is in trouble.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:01 pm
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Originally Posted by bman1002 View Post
This link is a bit dated, but CC companies are withholding payments to Norwegian: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...-air-6jbqn5n02

Good for ticket holders who paid with CC, but terrible for cash management I imagine.
3rd Feb is hardly dated.

CC providers did similar with FlyBe though given VS are now involved they may remove that self protection.
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