WOW headed for bankruptcy [operations ceased 28 March 2019]
Mar 29, 2019, 7:58 pm
#106
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
I, for one, won't. I flew them once and it was a horrendous experience. That kind of a race to the bottom is something I am glad isn't being rewarded as it is with RyanAir and the likes. I feel terrible for the crew and employees — that's a huge rug to be pulled out from under them, and it will have an outsized impact on Iceland. But as an airline, it was awful.
Mar 30, 2019, 4:39 am
#107
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: Star Alliance G*, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium,
Posts: 3,585
WOW in bankruptcy
I (too) flew WOW once. Cheap fare = good reason to visit Iceland i.e. big hit on tourism.
The reports in CA are revealing. AC acquired 4 A 320's from WOW a couple of months ago. Missed that?
Also, 2 of the aircraft are parked (seized?) in YUL & YYZ.
Also, I find it ironic that CA travlers are turning to the EU for compensation? Says a lot about CA travel laws!
The reports in CA are revealing. AC acquired 4 A 320's from WOW a couple of months ago. Missed that?
Also, 2 of the aircraft are parked (seized?) in YUL & YYZ.
Also, I find it ironic that CA travlers are turning to the EU for compensation? Says a lot about CA travel laws!
Mar 30, 2019, 9:03 am
#108
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Japan/Thailand
Programs: AS, UA
Posts: 1,201
I think that it's because Wow is (was) an EU-based carrier, not CA-based. Regardless, since they are bankrupt it's doubtful that anyone will be able to get any compensation out of them at all.
Mar 30, 2019, 4:18 pm
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
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Wow didn't go out because of bad service or tight pitch or bad irrops response. The public responded to the product. Wow went out because they were underpricing in an already saturated market, which has been the problem / destiny of all TATL LCCs since the Laker Skytrain in the mid-70s.
Mar 30, 2019, 5:02 pm
#110
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,129
Not wishing for higher fares but how do airlines break the cycle of this race to the bottom?
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
Last edited by Sealink; Mar 31, 2019 at 9:50 am
Mar 31, 2019, 9:01 pm
#111
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 296
Not wishing for higher fares but how do airlines break the cycle of this race to the bottom?
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
When I booked WOW, it was CAD$300 less than the competition. Toronto-->Paris. For 6 or 7 hours of slightly increased pain, ya, I'll deal with it. I usually hit the lounge before my flight anyway, so not getting free food or drinks on the plane isn't critical. I can fill my own water bottle pre-flight. I also found bathroom lineups a lot shorter when most others were fasting and sober.
I do the same comparisons for non-direct flights on mainline carriers. Transiting through the US or UK can create visa issues for others, but not me. Will I transfer through NYC/UK/Montreal for $50 less than direct? No. But a $200+ savings? Yes.
It's no different than buying the Corolla instead of a 'luxury' brand when you can afford both. Buying the luxury brand will be nicer, but set your retirement date back by months or even years. And the luxury car isn't going to get through traffic any faster.
I believe the complaining about low-cost carriers comes from:
- People whose tickets are paid by someone else (either a relative, or a company) where they don't feel the savings in terms of avoided hours of work, or an extra mortgage payment,
- Someone somehow expecting mainline service at ULCC prices. This is an A to B service.
What I do wonder is how much it actually costs airlines to handle checked luggage, and how much of it is mark-up. Are they selling products at a loss and trying to make it up with hard-to-avoid add-ons? Or are they just itemizing more and more of their costs?
Apr 1, 2019, 12:29 am
#112
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: AY Plat Lumo+LTG, FI Gold, DL Silver, BA, SK, AX Plat, Priority Pass, Marriott Ambassador & others
Posts: 634
For me, I just look at the dollars per hour per unit of pain. Or extra time travelling.
When I booked WOW, it was CAD$300 less than the competition. Toronto-->Paris. For 6 or 7 hours of slightly increased pain, ya, I'll deal with it. I usually hit the lounge before my flight anyway, so not getting free food or drinks on the plane isn't critical. I can fill my own water bottle pre-flight. I also found bathroom lineups a lot shorter when most others were fasting and sober.
I do the same comparisons for non-direct flights on mainline carriers. Transiting through the US or UK can create visa issues for others, but not me. Will I transfer through NYC/UK/Montreal for $50 less than direct? No. But a $200+ savings? Yes.
It's no different than buying the Corolla instead of a 'luxury' brand when you can afford both. Buying the luxury brand will be nicer, but set your retirement date back by months or even years. And the luxury car isn't going to get through traffic any faster.
I believe the complaining about low-cost carriers comes from:
What I do wonder is how much it actually costs airlines to handle checked luggage, and how much of it is mark-up. Are they selling products at a loss and trying to make it up with hard-to-avoid add-ons? Or are they just itemizing more and more of their costs?
When I booked WOW, it was CAD$300 less than the competition. Toronto-->Paris. For 6 or 7 hours of slightly increased pain, ya, I'll deal with it. I usually hit the lounge before my flight anyway, so not getting free food or drinks on the plane isn't critical. I can fill my own water bottle pre-flight. I also found bathroom lineups a lot shorter when most others were fasting and sober.
I do the same comparisons for non-direct flights on mainline carriers. Transiting through the US or UK can create visa issues for others, but not me. Will I transfer through NYC/UK/Montreal for $50 less than direct? No. But a $200+ savings? Yes.
It's no different than buying the Corolla instead of a 'luxury' brand when you can afford both. Buying the luxury brand will be nicer, but set your retirement date back by months or even years. And the luxury car isn't going to get through traffic any faster.
I believe the complaining about low-cost carriers comes from:
- People whose tickets are paid by someone else (either a relative, or a company) where they don't feel the savings in terms of avoided hours of work, or an extra mortgage payment,
- Someone somehow expecting mainline service at ULCC prices. This is an A to B service.
What I do wonder is how much it actually costs airlines to handle checked luggage, and how much of it is mark-up. Are they selling products at a loss and trying to make it up with hard-to-avoid add-ons? Or are they just itemizing more and more of their costs?
Apr 1, 2019, 7:55 am
#113
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
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Nissan sells a terrible, Spartan, uncomfortable little car, the Versa, for about $11,000. I wouldn't want one, but I would not call the fact of its existence evidence that the auto industry is "racing to the bottom." You have a spectrum of options.,
Apr 1, 2019, 9:29 am
#114
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,168
Lufthansa is offering 25% refund of the fare paid if you send in your original WOW ticket: https://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/ww-offer
As far as the repurposing of the repo-ed WOW A32S goes: they need to registered under a new AOC, which takes a while depending on the new operator and the CAA handling that operators AOC. For example the ex-AB A320 took months to be transferred to new lessors because the LBA wanted to verify the maintainance records. Even under optimal conditions things take a while: a few years ago it took BA 8 months to integrate 25 A32S from bmi into their fleet:
https://www.mro-network.com/maintena...t-three-stages
As a passenger with a ticket of bankrupt airline WOW air you are offered to benefit from reduced fare conditions. For flights with Lufthansa, SWISS and Austrian Airlines you can retroactively request a 25 percent partial refund of the ticket price. You will need to begin your flight with the Lufthansa Group by 30 April and complete your trip until 31 May 2019. After completion of your itinerary contact below email address. A proof of a WOW ticket is necessary. Code share flights are exempted. Further offer conditions apply.Step 1 Book a flight
Step 2 Travel with Lufthansa, SWISS and Austrian Airlines
Step 3 Request refund by contacting [email protected]
Step 2 Travel with Lufthansa, SWISS and Austrian Airlines
Step 3 Request refund by contacting [email protected]
Offer terms & conditions
- Passenger submits a request, after completion of their travel, via above mentioned e-mail address, along with a proof of original WOW air (WW) ticket and/or original confirmation from WOW Air. Lufthansa Group reserves the right to determine the eligibility of all accompanying documents.
- Last day of request submission is 30 June 2019
- Lufthansa (LH) / SWISS (LX) / Austrian Airlines (OS) will refund the value of 25% of the LH/LX/OS ticket purchase price to the passenger, provided:
- LH/LX/OS ticket purchase date: issued on/after 28 March 2019
- LH/LX/OS ticket travel date: Commencement of journey (outbound travel date) on/before 30 April 2019. Travel completion by 31 May 2019.
- Ticket issued by: LH/LX/OS
- Ticketed origin/destination: Corresponds to the original origin/destination of the WOW air ticket/itinerary. Origin/Destination may be reversed in case only the return portion of the original WOW air ticket/itinerary was affected by the WOW air grounding.
- Ticketed flights: LH/LX/OS/WK flights operated by LH/LX/OS/WK. Tickets with operated flights by other airlines (including LH/LX/OS marketing flight numbers on other airlines operation), or any other operator such as Deutsche Bahn, do not qualify for this refund.
- Qualifying compartment: Travel in Economy Class only.
- “Ticket purchase price” is defined as Base fare, International Surcharges, plus Taxes and other charges. Other items such as Ticket Service Charges, DCC, OPC, optional charges such as advanced seat reservation, excess baggage fees, optional meal purchases, etc. are not subject to refund amount calculation.
As far as the repurposing of the repo-ed WOW A32S goes: they need to registered under a new AOC, which takes a while depending on the new operator and the CAA handling that operators AOC. For example the ex-AB A320 took months to be transferred to new lessors because the LBA wanted to verify the maintainance records. Even under optimal conditions things take a while: a few years ago it took BA 8 months to integrate 25 A32S from bmi into their fleet:
https://www.mro-network.com/maintena...t-three-stages
Apr 2, 2019, 8:54 am
#115
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Grantham, NH
Posts: 530
The cheapest possible longhaul fares today are for a product / service I wouldn't really want, but I have never had more options up and down the price / value scale between Wow Y and Emirates F. What you call a "race to the bottom" the airlines call "more choice." Just because bargain-basement propositions exist, doesn't mean you have to endure them.
Better transparency and decent search capabilities and I wouldn't care about deep discount carriers.
Apr 2, 2019, 12:52 pm
#116
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Not wishing for higher fares but how do airlines break the cycle of this race to the bottom?
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
I've had friends who swore blind they wouldn't fly FR/U2 etc again but then do so because "they were the cheapest".
As airline pax are we masochists?
EDIT: maybe my first line answered the question!
Air travel is viewed as a commodity where people don't differentiate between a carrier that has less legroom, no recline, no interline agreement, etc. It isn't until something goes very wrong do people even start to pay attention. And even then, people don't pay much attention. WoW just went out of business and people are still booking on Norwegian in spite of Norwegian having almost as many financial issues as WoW.
When Aloha went out of business, ATA also went out of business a few days later. I saw a news reporter interviewing a guy who had tickets on Aloha and then turned around and bought tickets on ATA. He got burned twice by buying 'cheap' tickets from airlines with major financial troubles.
Apr 5, 2019, 10:27 am
#117
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,095
The EC rules applied to WOW for the same sort of reasons they apply to Swiss and Norwegian carriers. And Switzerland and Norway also aren’t part of the EU.
Apr 5, 2019, 8:29 pm
#118
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 127
Skúli Mogensen hasn't given up. Does anyone think he'll find investors to reinject life into WOW? I admire his passion and realize the wisdom in learning from past mistakes but I find it hard to believe that he'll be able to go bankrupt and then relaunch with the same core business model a week later!
Apr 8, 2019, 3:02 pm
#120
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
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Posts: 1,674