kdespieg

Airline: Icelandair
Destination: Dublin

I am currently in Iceland and my flight has been delayed by 3 hours and 15 minutes due to an incoming flight delay. I guess the plane has not arrived on time. I have received a meal voucher but I believe that I am entitled to 250€ compensation as well if I arrive over 3hrs after my scheduled arrival. Is my thinking correct?

Skatering

Yes, but it's an 'if'. The clock stops when the door opens at DUB.

If you're delayed 3 hours 15 minutes, there's every chance you'll arrive with a <3 hour delay.

kdespieg

​​​​​​The door opened at around 2:52pm as the flight was delayed longer and it took awhile to board, my boarding pass says it should have been a 10:50am arrival. I was told that there was a problem with a plane that was supposed to come in from JFK. I am not sure if it arrived or if they brought in another plane. I don't think that has any relevance to my claim since it has nothing to do with my flight from KEF to DUB. Looking into it more, the flight is right at the 1500km mark. I am not sure what exactly I will qualify for since it was over 4hrs delay and might be over 1500km as well. Any ideas if that makes a difference?

Often1

EC 261/2004 specifies that the distance is calculated using the Great Circle Method. At least one of the commonly-available calculators puts KEF-DUB at 1,501 km, making this a Type 2 flight. This would make your delay compensation EUR 400 at 3 hours or 13:50 IST. The niceties of when the aircraft was available for offloading won't likely be necessary here.

The reason for the delay may matter and can't be categorically ignored.

Bear in mind that Iceland is not a Member State and has chosen to adopt EC 261/2004. It is not bound by ECJ precedents and FI and Iceland's courts might have a different view of the expansive readings of the Regulation by the ECJ.

henry999

This is true. However, in my experience (one time only) when they were clearly liable they paid up promptly and without quibble.

kdespieg

So I filed a request for compensation on May 22 and I have not heard back from Icelandair other than confirmation that they have received my request immediately after sending it. I replied to this message several days ago asking for an update and I have not heard anything from them. It seems like they are not being very forthcoming with this compensation. If I have not heard from them a week from now, I am going to pursue it with one of those companies that will do it for you. Any recommendations for which company to use or if this is a good idea?

nanyang

Another example of the lunacy spawned by this regulation. EUR400 might be more than the cost of the ticket. Then again, would Europe be worse off without air transport... well, could be a problem for Iceland I assume.

Trav1970

The directive is there so that airlines have an incentive to operate their business in such a way that passenger inconvenience is minimized. In this case we are talking about an outbound flight delay from the airline's home base (KEF).

Let's take it as a fact that sometimes inbound flights are delayed, for whatever reason. The airline has multiple ways of dealing with that:

1) Have a reserve plane ready to go in cases like this. This may be an expensive solution.
2) Delay a single flight until the originally planned aircraft arrives. By doing so, 1 plane load of passengers get delayed by 100% of the delay.
3) Change equipment between several flights so that many flights get delayed, but none of them by very much. This way a lot more passengers will experience a delay, but the delay per passenger would be far less.

It's up to the airline to figure out how they want to run their business. On an outstation, alternative 2 may be the only feasible option if the airline only has 1 flight from that location on that day. But in the home base, certainly there would be other options. The EU261 compensation simply provide a motivation for the airline to think about them.

Often1

That may well be what was originally intended, but the ECJ (CJEU), apparently composed of commercial aviation experts, has interpreted the Regulation in a wildly anti-business manner which bears little resemblance to what was written.

It goes without saying that the costs are paid by those who purchase tickets. In Europe, that is largely businesses. But, their employees get the compensation. So, it is simply another business operating tax.

trooper

Well said. My problem with these regulations is that there doesn't seem to be anything similar imposed on any other area of commerce. If there was...across the board..then fair enough, but what other commercial endeavours are held accountable for untimely performance in ANY way similar to Europes airlines? Seems almost discriminatory..... and certainly unfair.

CPH-Flyer

The problem is more that the regulation is written in a way that requires very high levels of interpretation. And as with all laws requiring that, it becomes the role of courts to do that interpretation. If the politicians are not happy with these interpretations, they must rewrite the thing to adjust for any unintended effects.

Many European countries have similar rules for compensation regarding train delays, though not with as steep penalties Though no cross EU regulations for international trains.

Trav1970

I am writing this reply on a Sunday while onboard a flight for business reasons. Any delays or missed connections would make a dent to my already limited sleep / free time. There would be zero impact for my employer, unless the delay was so bad that I would not reach my destination until the business day had actually started. So why exactly should the compensation not be due me personally?

WorldLux

On the other hand, the initially effort of some airlines to curtail the application of the regulation may very well be what led to the ECJ ruling so consumer favourably. Even with the current interpretation, airlines can get out of paying by merely refusing to pay and telling passengers to go away. Particularly in jurisdictions without small claims courts, there's only a small subset of passengers that will sue the airline.

@trooper: There are train passenger rights, ship passenger rights and bus passenger rights.

kdespieg

Because of Icelandair delaying my claim, I was looking into this. If the airline refuses to pay within 6 weeks, you can contact the aviation governing body for your destination and they will pursue your compensation and also I imagine impose some kind of penalty on the airline for not following EU regulations, but the penalty is pure speculation on my part.

FINAL UPDATE:

I did hear from Icelandair today and it is most likely due to the email I sent yesterday that threatened to contact the Icelandic Airport Authority and the Ireland Commission for Aviation Regulation. After hearing nothing for 22 days they responded within 24 hours. I think they found a bit of a loophole due to the nature of my flight so I will not be getting 400 euro as I had thought. My origin flight was from Toronto and we stayed for 24 hours in Reykjavik and then flew to Dublin. It was all booked as 1 flight so Icelandair is claiming that my flight was over 3500km and that we were late less than 4 hours so according to Section 7.1(c) and 7.2(c) of 261/2004 they are allowed to reduce the 600 euro compensation by 50%. According to FlightAware.com my flight landed at 2:41pm which is only 3 hours and 51 minutes after my original arrival time and while I believe that they didn't open the doors until 2:52pm, I have no way to prove it. My wife and I have accepted 600 euro(300 each) and are pretty happy that most of our flight is paid for. Do I feel guilty? Maybe a little, but the regulations are there for a reason and I doubt many people on my flight claimed compensation or were even aware that they could. That is based that on the discussions I had with several other passengers during the delay and flight.

For those that are commenting that this is an unfair regulation, I think that this regulation might be a little too tough in the penalties but the right idea is there. My delay was totally Icelandair's fault due to trying to run too lean an operation. I was flying out of where they are based and they did not have an extra plane or crew to use when the incoming plane was delayed for who knows what reason. They also could probably have shifted around other flights so that my flight was not 3 hours late and chose not to do that because, I assume the payout for this delay would be less than the cost and hassle incurred by doing that. I think it is good that there is accountability for airlines for being on time and I don't think that it is hurting the industry very much if you look at all the airline options and costs of flying in Europe.

Thank you all for your help and interesting discussions.