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Bott & Co lose High Court case against Ryanair

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Old Mar 22, 2018, 2:47 am
  #1  
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Bott & Co lose High Court case against Ryanair

Originally Posted by The Independent
A High Court judge has rejected a claim against Ryanair from a firm of solicitors over flight delay compensation.

Bott & Co, a Cheshire-based practice specialising in airline passengers’ claims, had sought to recover legal fees in cases where Ryanair had settled direct with the customer.

It was revealed in court that the solicitors’ firm handles around 25,000 compensation claims a year involving European passengers’ rights rules. The average payout is €327 (Ł286), of which Bott & Co collects one third: Ł95

In most cases airlines pay the firm, which deducts its fee and passes on the rest to the client. But in 2016 Ryanair began to settle direct with passengers.

Bott & Co’s High Court claim was for unpaid fees in such cases. It had tried to recoup the money from the passenger, but 30 per cent did not pay.

The solicitors also argued that a clause in Ryanair’s terms and conditions requiring passengers to contact the airline before submitting a claim through a third party was unfair.

But Judge Edward Murray ruled: “Ryanair has established a straightforward and easy to use process for its passengers to make their flight delay compensation claims, either online or by correspondence, without the assistance of a third party.”

Originally Posted by Ryanair
Ryanair’s Kenny Jacobs said:

“We welcome this London High Court ruling upholding Ryanair’s policy of communicating with, and paying EU261 compensation directly to, our consumers. This will help prevent “claims chaser” firms like Bott & Co, Fairplane, Hayward Baker, Sky Legal, Flightright, and Flight Heroes, deliberately and needlessly dragging consumers through the courts so they can grab more than 40% of customers’ compensation, for providing no useful service.

Where customers have a valid claim for compensation, they can make their claim directly on the Ryanair.com website and avoid these excessive “claims chasers” deductions. As part of our 2018 “Always Getting Better”customer plan, Ryanair has established a dedicated Claims team to process these valid claims within 10 working days and to make it as straightforward as possible for our customers.”
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 7:45 am
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The problem is that airlines do not pay in many cases where they should. And borderline cases needs to be clarified, so hate them or not at times these claim companies have a role to play.

It is fairly sneaky of Ryanair to settle directly to the customer if it is a court ordered settlement, or looking clearly likely a loss for the airline. But I guess they have an interest in undermining the business of these companies, as they will be paying more cases than their own judgement would mean
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer
It is fairly sneaky of Ryanair to settle directly to the customer if it is a court ordered settlement, or looking clearly likely a loss for the airline.
That's not the issue here. It's not about cases that have made it to court.

Ryanair only ever sends the compensation directly to the passenger - never to a third party. This is not to do with court-ordered settlements; rather, customers who selected Bott & Co to prosecute the case for them, and who then received the compensation directly from Ryanair, often refuse to "pay" Bott & Co their "share". Bott & Co took Ryanair to court in order to force them to start paying the agent (where there is one) rather than always paying the customer directly.

For a recent experience with Ryanair compensation by the writer of Gulliver (Economist's travel blog), have a look here.
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 11:35 am
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Bott and the "claims chasers" are free to pursue the passengers for the fee. They simply don't want to because the fees are individually small and it creates enormous ill will. But, that is the business model the claims chasers have chosen.
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
That's not the issue here. It's not about cases that have made it to court.

Ryanair only ever sends the compensation directly to the passenger - never to a third party. This is not to do with court-ordered settlements; rather, customers who selected Bott & Co to prosecute the case for them, and who then received the compensation directly from Ryanair, often refuse to "pay" Bott & Co their "share". Bott & Co took Ryanair to court in order to force them to start paying the agent (where there is one) rather than always paying the customer directly.

For a recent experience with Ryanair compensation by the writer of Gulliver (Economist's travel blog), have a look here.
It is not clear from the article where in the flow of things the claims in question were. Hence also the conditional part of my statement. I am fairly certain there are both immediate and court settlements in that.

I don't know how good or how bad Ryanair is compared to other airlines, but their business model has always been and still is to push the boundaries. So I am sure their quick and voluntary settlements are for crystal clear cases only. Which is not unfair, they should not pay unnecessary claims. But the means for passengers to push the grey zone cases are limited beyond these "chaser" companies.

As far as I know, the alternative arbitration is not legally binding. Correct me if I am wrong
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 4:28 pm
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45
v) Ms Murthi also noted that once proceedings are issued, Ryanair does not seek to contact its customer directly. It retains the law firm Ince & Co to handle flight disruption compensation litigation (or did so at the time of Ms Murthi’s second witness statement). In a case involving Bott representing the customer, Ince & Co would communicate directly with Bott, for example, in relation to the service of court documents.

119.
ii) Ryanair says that it now routinely copies Bott on its correspondence with Bott’s clients. Bott insists that there are instances where this has not occurred, resulting in its initiating proceedings when its client has already received compensation from Ryanair. It seems prudent that Ryanair should continue to copy Bott on any correspondence with Bott’s clients in order to avoid the issue of unnecessary proceedings and consequent waste of time and resources for both Bott and Ryanair that such proceedings will inevitably entail.
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 5:31 pm
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I'd say that this lawfirm has no basis to go after Ryanair. They should go after the pax that refuse to pay the 95 quid commission.

However all of this is not by chance. I'm pretty sure Ryanair is paying out to pax directly because they know this will cause issues for the law firms. I'm guessing Ryanair's game plan here is to have these law firms no longer accept Ryanair cases? Or force them into asking the pax to pay the commission up-front..which will cause many pax (at least the ones who are not sure totally about their case) to not start the procedure at all.

I'd say smart move on Ryanair's part. Not great for the consumers, but definitely a smart idea..
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Old Mar 24, 2018, 11:59 pm
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IANAL! So it actually AMAZES me that this was seen ...by legal professionals...as a claim worth making. From MY perspective it is very very simple... the claimants refused to pay the legal fees..... Boot & co therefore have a solid claim against THEM. It has nothing to do with Ryanair, nor in fact does THEIR motivation really matter.... Of course that is a laymans view! lol
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Old Mar 25, 2018, 12:12 am
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Originally Posted by trooper
IANAL! So it actually AMAZES me that this was seen ...by legal professionals...as a claim worth making. From MY perspective it is very very simple... the claimants refused to pay the legal fees..... Boot & co therefore have a solid claim against THEM. It has nothing to do with Ryanair, nor in fact does THEIR motivation really matter.... Of course that is a laymans view! lol
It is fully a case between them and their clients. However, the optics are not on their side if they aggressively chase the money.

Probably time to update the pitch and the contracts a bit.
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Old Mar 25, 2018, 12:21 am
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Why should Ryanair not pay the consumer directly? Are they a government who wants to take their share of the taxes first?
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Old Mar 26, 2018, 3:16 am
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
Why should Ryanair not pay the consumer directly? Are they a government who wants to take their share of the taxes first?
The consumer appointed a firm to represent them. The firm usually receives a settlement and forwards that amount after deducting their fees.
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