Warning: TAP Changes Fare Class of Discount Tickets
Aug 6, 2017, 9:54 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,239
Warning: TAP Changes Fare Class of Discount Tickets
I purchased a discount ticket on TP from the US website as I did not need checked luggage for the trip; according to ITA Matrix, the fare class of the ticket available at the discount price was U. Upon confirmation, I called TP and asked for a copy of the receipt emailed; they emailed me the Amadeus Travel Document that looks like the below (obviously that's not exactly what I was sent, the fare class and fare basis are the same as original, everything else changed).
FROM /TO FLIGHT CL DATE DEP FARE BASIS NVB NVA BAG ST
LONDON HEATHROW TP 917 U 09APR 2125 U15DSC0C 09APR 09APR 30K OK
TERMINAL:2
BANGKOK SEAT: 33A ARRIVAL TIME: 1500 ARRIVAL DATE: 10APR
SUVARNABHUMI
INTL
The flight credited as E class and earned only 10% miles (U class earns 50% in most programs and E earns 0-10% in most programs). I contacted my FFP who told me TP reported the flight was booked in E class. It took me several phone calls and emails to get them to honor the 50% mileage for U class; several agents told me TP reported it as E class and there was nothing they could do.
Buyer beware, if you book a discount ticket you will likely earn based on O, E, T classes even if the fare class you purchase is different.
EDIT: As an aside, does anyone know what NVA and NVB mean?
FROM /TO FLIGHT CL DATE DEP FARE BASIS NVB NVA BAG ST
LONDON HEATHROW TP 917 U 09APR 2125 U15DSC0C 09APR 09APR 30K OK
TERMINAL:2
BANGKOK SEAT: 33A ARRIVAL TIME: 1500 ARRIVAL DATE: 10APR
SUVARNABHUMI
INTL
The flight credited as E class and earned only 10% miles (U class earns 50% in most programs and E earns 0-10% in most programs). I contacted my FFP who told me TP reported the flight was booked in E class. It took me several phone calls and emails to get them to honor the 50% mileage for U class; several agents told me TP reported it as E class and there was nothing they could do.
Buyer beware, if you book a discount ticket you will likely earn based on O, E, T classes even if the fare class you purchase is different.
EDIT: As an aside, does anyone know what NVA and NVB mean?
Aug 6, 2017, 10:03 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,239
Aug 7, 2017, 9:30 am
#5
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,132
TP 917 usually flies ZRH-OPO. TP has no U fares filed from LHR to BKK. If you throw garbage details at us there is little one can do to look up the real story....
Aug 7, 2017, 9:13 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,239
I said I changed the information of the flight in the original post but here's the original if it matters so much:
LISBON AIRPORT TP 562 U 30MAY 0820 U15DSC0C 30MAY 30MAY 0PC OK
TERMINAL:1
HAMBURG HAMBURG ARRIVAL TIME: 1235 ARRIVAL DATE: 30MAY
TERMINAL:2
LISBON AIRPORT TP 562 U 30MAY 0820 U15DSC0C 30MAY 30MAY 0PC OK
TERMINAL:1
HAMBURG HAMBURG ARRIVAL TIME: 1235 ARRIVAL DATE: 30MAY
TERMINAL:2
Aug 8, 2017, 12:19 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
You booked a "Discount" fare, as indicated by the "DSC" in the fare basis. As such, you earn 10% of the miles.
Aug 8, 2017, 9:18 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,239
I was under the impression that I should earn bases on the fare class according to the chart on the website of the partner airline if crediting to a partner program.
Aug 8, 2017, 9:25 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
Which programme are you earning in? [You certainly do not appear to like volunteering information!!!]
You should be warned, though, that Star Alliance has form in "translating" from one class to another, most visibly when on a codeshare - and always in a way that earns you fewer miles.
(I don't think it's surprising that a discount fare that earns a paltry rate in the native FFP of the operating airline wouldn't similarly be translated to a "lesser" fare in a partner. If it's any consolation, the same has happened to me since KLM moved to a similar fare family as TAP. On KLM, you can buy any of the fare classes in Light, Basic or Flex categories - and other Skyteam partners no longer give miles for some tickets, although nominally in an earning fare class, because they are "Light" tickets).
You should be warned, though, that Star Alliance has form in "translating" from one class to another, most visibly when on a codeshare - and always in a way that earns you fewer miles.
(I don't think it's surprising that a discount fare that earns a paltry rate in the native FFP of the operating airline wouldn't similarly be translated to a "lesser" fare in a partner. If it's any consolation, the same has happened to me since KLM moved to a similar fare family as TAP. On KLM, you can buy any of the fare classes in Light, Basic or Flex categories - and other Skyteam partners no longer give miles for some tickets, although nominally in an earning fare class, because they are "Light" tickets).
Aug 10, 2017, 11:39 am
#11
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,338
I would agree that normally the earning rules on the operator website are just that - earnings when crediting to the operators FF programme. To be ignored when crediting to another *A programme.
When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.
However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?
When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.
However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?
Aug 10, 2017, 12:27 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: OZ Diamond/*G, IHG Diamond Amb, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,239
I would agree that normally the earning rules on the operator website are just that - earnings when crediting to the operators FF programme. To be ignored when crediting to another *A programme.
When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.
However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?
When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.
However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?
I was crediting to Asiana Club. I recall a thread in the TK forum describing similar behavior from TP when crediting to TK so this seems to be widespread behavior on the part of TP.
Aug 11, 2017, 4:00 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
I know that this has not yet appeared in partners' tables - because they still cling to the "traditional" fare table - but TAP has moved onwards.
They still have a hierarchy of fares classes (such as Y/B/M/H at the top as the most expensive, and O/E/T at the bottom, as the least expensive) - - but they now sell variations within each fare basis.
And it is the "variation" that now matters most.
It is now possible, for each fare class, to decide whether to buy it as "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus". This decision is what determines, in TAP's view, what services are provided - whether you get baggage allowance, whether you can select a seat for free, whether you can cancel - and, crucially, what miles you get.
TAP no longer awards miles based on the fare basis "Y", "B", "M", "U"....."O", "E", or "T". They award miles based on whether you then opted for "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus".
So, you could buy a "Y" fare (already very expensive) but as a "Discount" fare - and receive no luggage, 10% miles from TAP, etc. You could by an "O" fare (one of the cheaper ones), but as a "Classic" (and get 70% miles) or "Plus" (and get 100% miles).
Therefore, the mileage tables for most partners are currently "wrong", but it will probably take time for all partners to change to adapt to this new style of fare selling. But, in the meantime, it probably appears that - whether at the StarNet level, or whether TAP do it themselves - they "advertise" the fare basis to external partners as being something more appropriate to your choice of "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus", rather than your original choice of "U". (Within TAP, the choice of "U" can't yet tell you whether you should earn 10%, 40%, 70% or 100% miles).
I know this is all super opaque and not customer-friendly - but at least this should give you some feel as to why, perhaps, your "U" didn't earn you the 50% that Asiana promised, because TAP have effectively withdrawn from the "old" system of using a fixed letter to denote a fixed earning.
See the table of TAP fare families here: https://www.flytap.com/en-nl/booking...n/tap-products
From a discussion earlier showing the new fare families in the form of actual filed fare bases:
In each fare basis, you need to look for "DSC" (Discount), "BSC" (Basic) "CLC" (Classic) "PLU" (Plus). (The business-class fares have "EXE" (Executive) or "TOP" (Top Executive).
I have highlighted the four "U" fares - U15PLU0A on line 42, the U Basic and U Classic on lines 56 & 57, and yours - U Discount - on line 61, showing their hierarchy in a listing of the 68 available fares on this route at this time.
They still have a hierarchy of fares classes (such as Y/B/M/H at the top as the most expensive, and O/E/T at the bottom, as the least expensive) - - but they now sell variations within each fare basis.
And it is the "variation" that now matters most.
It is now possible, for each fare class, to decide whether to buy it as "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus". This decision is what determines, in TAP's view, what services are provided - whether you get baggage allowance, whether you can select a seat for free, whether you can cancel - and, crucially, what miles you get.
TAP no longer awards miles based on the fare basis "Y", "B", "M", "U"....."O", "E", or "T". They award miles based on whether you then opted for "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus".
So, you could buy a "Y" fare (already very expensive) but as a "Discount" fare - and receive no luggage, 10% miles from TAP, etc. You could by an "O" fare (one of the cheaper ones), but as a "Classic" (and get 70% miles) or "Plus" (and get 100% miles).
Therefore, the mileage tables for most partners are currently "wrong", but it will probably take time for all partners to change to adapt to this new style of fare selling. But, in the meantime, it probably appears that - whether at the StarNet level, or whether TAP do it themselves - they "advertise" the fare basis to external partners as being something more appropriate to your choice of "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus", rather than your original choice of "U". (Within TAP, the choice of "U" can't yet tell you whether you should earn 10%, 40%, 70% or 100% miles).
I know this is all super opaque and not customer-friendly - but at least this should give you some feel as to why, perhaps, your "U" didn't earn you the 50% that Asiana promised, because TAP have effectively withdrawn from the "old" system of using a fixed letter to denote a fixed earning.
See the table of TAP fare families here: https://www.flytap.com/en-nl/booking...n/tap-products
From a discussion earlier showing the new fare families in the form of actual filed fare bases:
In each fare basis, you need to look for "DSC" (Discount), "BSC" (Basic) "CLC" (Classic) "PLU" (Plus). (The business-class fares have "EXE" (Executive) or "TOP" (Top Executive).
I have highlighted the four "U" fares - U15PLU0A on line 42, the U Basic and U Classic on lines 56 & 57, and yours - U Discount - on line 61, showing their hierarchy in a listing of the 68 available fares on this route at this time.
Yep, they have switched to a 3 letter code in the fare basis like the LH group.
Code:
04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM 1433/MPM 1719 LN FARE BASIS OW EUR RT B PEN DATES/DAYS AP MIN MAX R 01+C15TOP0A 772 1544 C - - - + - - - R 02+C15EXE0A 722 1444 C + - - + - - - R 03+Y15PLU0A 551 1102 Y + - - + - - - R 04+Y15CLC0A 501 1002 Y NRF - - + - - - R 05+Y15BSC0A 496 992 Y NRF - - + - - - R 06+D15TOP0A 492 984 D - - - + - - - R 07+Y15DSC0A 481 962 Y NRF - - + - - - R 08+B15PLU0A 470 940 B + - - + - - - R 09+D15EXE0A 442 884 D + - - + - - - R 10+B15CLC0A 420 840 B NRF - - + - - - R 11+B15BSC0A 415 830 B NRF - - + - - - R 12+B15DSC0A 400 800 B NRF - - + - - - R 13+M15PLU0A 400 800 M + - - + - - - R 14+M15CLC0A 350 700 M NRF - - + - - - R 15+M15BSC0A 345 690 M NRF - - + - - - R 16+S15PLU0A 340 680 S + - - + - - - R 17+M15DSC0A 330 660 M NRF - - + - - - R 18+S15CLC0A 290 580 S NRF - - + - - - R 19+H15PLU0A 290 580 H + - - + - - - R > PAGE 2/ 5 >m 04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM 1433/MPM 1719 LN FARE BASIS OW EUR RT B PEN DATES/DAYS AP MIN MAX R 20+S15BSC0A 285 570 S NRF - - + - - - R 21+S15DSC0A 270 540 S NRF - - + - - - R 22+Z15TOP0A 268 536 Z - - - + - - - R 23+Q15PLU0A 242 484 Q + - - + - - - R 24+H15CLC0A 240 480 H NRF - - + - - - R 25+H15BSC0A 235 470 H NRF - - + - - - R 26+H15DSC0A 220 440 H NRF - - + - - - R 27+Z15EXE0A 218 436 Z + - - + - - - R 28+V15PLU0A 205 410 V + - - + - - - R 29+Q15CLC0A 192 384 Q NRF - - + - - - R 30+W15PLU0A 189 378 W + - - + - - - R 31+Q15BSC0A 187 374 Q NRF - - + - - - R 32+Q15DSC0A 172 344 Q NRF - - + - - - R 33+A15PLU0A 167 334 A + - - + - - - R 34+K15PLU0A 157 314 K + - - + - - - R 35+V15CLC0A 155 310 V NRF - - + - - - R 36+V15BSC0A 150 300 V NRF - - + - - - R 37+J15TOP0A 143 286 J - - - + - - - R 38+W15CLC0A 139 278 W NRF - - + - - - R > PAGE 3/ 5 >m 04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM 1433/MPM 1719 LN FARE BASIS OW EUR RT B PEN DATES/DAYS AP MIN MAX R 39+L15PLU0A 138 276 L + - - + - - - R 40+V15DSC0A 135 270 V NRF - - + - - - R 41+W15BSC0A 134 268 W NRF - - + - - - R 42+U15PLU0A 126 252 U + - - + - - - R 43+W15DSC0A 119 238 W NRF - - + - - - R 44+A15CLC0A 117 234 A NRF - - + - - - R 45+A15BSC0A 112 224 A NRF - - + - - - R 46+E15PLU0A 111 222 E + - - + - - - R 47+K15CLC0A 107 214 K NRF - - + - - - R 48+K15BSC0A 102 204 K NRF - - + - - - R 49+T15PLU0A 101 202 T + - - + - - - R 50+A15DSC0A 97 194 A NRF - - + - - - R 51+J15EXE0A 93 186 J + - - + - - - R 52+L15CLC0A 88 176 L NRF - - + - - - R 53+O15PLU0A 88 176 O + - - + - - - R 54+K15DSC0A 87 174 K NRF - - + - - - R 55+L15BSC0A 83 166 L NRF - - + - - - R 56+U15CLC0A 76 152 U NRF - - + - - - R 57+U15BSC0A 71 142 U NRF - - + - - - R > PAGE 4/ 5 >m 04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM 1433/MPM 1719 LN FARE BASIS OW EUR RT B PEN DATES/DAYS AP MIN MAX R 58+L15DSC0A 68 136 L NRF - - + - - - R 59+E15CLC0A 61 122 E NRF - - + - - - R 60+E15BSC0A 56 112 E NRF - - + - - - R 61+U15DSC0A 56 112 U NRF - - + - - - R 62+T15CLC0A 51 102 T NRF - - + - - - R 63+T15BSC0A 46 92 T NRF - - + - - - R 64+E15DSC0A 41 82 E NRF - - + - - - R 65+O15CLC0A 38 76 O NRF - - + - - - R 66+O15BSC0A 33 66 O NRF - - + - - - R 67+T15DSC0A 31 62 T NRF - - + - - - R 68+O15DSC0A 18 36 O NRF - - + - - - R
Aug 11, 2017, 7:51 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,187
It is now possible, for each fare class, to decide whether to buy it as "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus". This decision is what determines, in TAP's view, what services are provided - whether you get baggage allowance, whether you can select a seat for free, whether you can cancel - and, crucially, what miles you get.
Aug 11, 2017, 7:54 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,697
I agree that everyone should update their tables ASAP and be upfront and clear about what earning is going to be - but experience from Flying Blue - which, I accept, is a different alliance, but still - shows that partners will often drag their feet in updating earnings tables to reflect new fare structures.
That said, *A has its own neuroses when it comes to earning, such as the spread of business class fares that earn no miles. (Lufthansa's P earns 0% in more *A programmes than those for which it earns 100%. There's even one that gives it 70%. Some of those programmes that give 0% for P give 100% for the Lufthansa discount premium economy N fare!)