Norwegian Air - A Cautionary Tale
Aug 15, 2018, 6:50 pm
#136
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
DY simply follows the LCC model. That means tight scheduling and high utilization of aircraft and crews. That works just fine except in IRROPS. It costs money to maintain spare aircraft and crews and that means higher ticket prices which the DY market demographic simply won't accept.
Similarly, it is rare for LCC's to have interline agreements because that means all kinds of extra work and cost. Again, passengers won't accept it.
The question one must ask is not whether the product is acceptable if everything works out, but what the risk tolerance is for handling IRROPS recovery on one's own.
Similarly, it is rare for LCC's to have interline agreements because that means all kinds of extra work and cost. Again, passengers won't accept it.
The question one must ask is not whether the product is acceptable if everything works out, but what the risk tolerance is for handling IRROPS recovery on one's own.
Aug 15, 2018, 7:49 pm
#137
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 1,001
We have flown with them for 4 round trips, with no issues. I have a further trip booked for late November. I take the risk for a few reasons. I can pay for what I want, I carry on less than 10kg, I do not need onboard dining or entertainment and I can snag an exit row seat for a low fee, if I book early enough. The planes I have flown have been new and clean, staff friendly.
I have the money to throw at a problem, if one arises. I have great travel insurance. I also have a flexible life situation, so if I get stuck a few days I can just turn it in to a trip I also do not commit to anything at my destination, I tend to use flights with them to visit friends and family, not for touring new places.
I definitely would not be booking them for time sensitive travel plans with multiple hotels etc booked.
I have the money to throw at a problem, if one arises. I have great travel insurance. I also have a flexible life situation, so if I get stuck a few days I can just turn it in to a trip I also do not commit to anything at my destination, I tend to use flights with them to visit friends and family, not for touring new places.
I definitely would not be booking them for time sensitive travel plans with multiple hotels etc booked.
Aug 16, 2018, 7:42 pm
#138
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Kettle Class
Posts: 796
I'll join the coterie of commenters here that have had no issues with Norwegian. Recently finished LGW-SIN (supposedly the world's "longest LCC flight") in Premium.
Brand new 787-9, literally delivered a few days ago. The flight featured the more dense Premium configuration, but still comfortable and very reasonably priced at 550 pounds one-way(!). Fast Track security, lounge access, two meals and a snack, beer and spirits, choice of seat, and 2 bags in the hold all included. Attentive crew, although my expectations were no more than what I'd hold a normal Economy crew to. Decent IFE.
Flight was <1h delayed, but that was due to departure runway congestion at Gatwick. I'd fly them again, although maybe their 787-9 fleet has not had the engine issues (and resulting IRROPS) of the 787-8 fleet?
Brand new 787-9, literally delivered a few days ago. The flight featured the more dense Premium configuration, but still comfortable and very reasonably priced at 550 pounds one-way(!). Fast Track security, lounge access, two meals and a snack, beer and spirits, choice of seat, and 2 bags in the hold all included. Attentive crew, although my expectations were no more than what I'd hold a normal Economy crew to. Decent IFE.
Flight was <1h delayed, but that was due to departure runway congestion at Gatwick. I'd fly them again, although maybe their 787-9 fleet has not had the engine issues (and resulting IRROPS) of the 787-8 fleet?
Aug 19, 2018, 7:14 am
#139
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 60
Hello. I'm copying the post I made on TripAdvisor to detail my initial encounter with Norwegian attempting to fly from EWR to ORY on a flight subcontracted to EuroAtlantic.
My family and I spent a night at EWR (from Friday evening to Saturday morning) awaiting boarding. It was terrible!
The plane arrived at our gate late, having done a pit stop in Boston allegedly due to the bad weather. Boarding kept being delayed every 30 minutes or so and around 5:30 am we were told that the flight was canceled due to technical reasons. We were not given food or drinks past the 4-hour mark as required by Regulation 261/2004. Not even water!
As we were fetching our luggage we got a text that the flight was reinstated. We all attempted to get back to the gate but could not because the security personel was not in place. Then we were told it was just a bad joke (well not using those terms but it was a bad joke).
Some people somehow figured out that the staff had relocated behind the OpenSkies desk and managed to get their trip rebooked. I got there quite tardively and was only able to get rebooked on Monday to BCN (Barcelona) with the understanding that I would then be rerouted to ORY from BCN.
After I eventually managed to get customer service via chat (it was virtually impossible to get customer service on the phone), I realized that the plan was just to dump me in BCN.
I ended up accepting being rebooked on JFK-CDG on Monday. Middle seats, couple of last rows.
On the plus side the staff was always friendly.
I am especially sorry for the two Norwegian flight attendants that apparently do not get paid when they do not fly and had to "take the heat" since there were the only people with a Norwegian uniform around. Things were never really rough but Police was called at one point to help keeping protesters in line.
In short I hope that next Monday's will be a better experience (this is my first time flying Norwegian) but I cannot recommend you gambling with the combo Norwegian+EuroAtlantic if you need to be at a given place at a given time. It's cool if you want to go backpack in Europe and don't care where... but it's not cool if you have a family with you and hotel reservations that are not cancelable.
I hope that I will get compensated 600 euros per person plus the taxi to go back home this morning from EWR and back to JFK on Monday. I plan to update this thread in a couple of weeks with comments about the onboard experience and success getting compensated.
This is certainly another cautionary tale. To be continued...
My family and I spent a night at EWR (from Friday evening to Saturday morning) awaiting boarding. It was terrible!
The plane arrived at our gate late, having done a pit stop in Boston allegedly due to the bad weather. Boarding kept being delayed every 30 minutes or so and around 5:30 am we were told that the flight was canceled due to technical reasons. We were not given food or drinks past the 4-hour mark as required by Regulation 261/2004. Not even water!
As we were fetching our luggage we got a text that the flight was reinstated. We all attempted to get back to the gate but could not because the security personel was not in place. Then we were told it was just a bad joke (well not using those terms but it was a bad joke).
Some people somehow figured out that the staff had relocated behind the OpenSkies desk and managed to get their trip rebooked. I got there quite tardively and was only able to get rebooked on Monday to BCN (Barcelona) with the understanding that I would then be rerouted to ORY from BCN.
After I eventually managed to get customer service via chat (it was virtually impossible to get customer service on the phone), I realized that the plan was just to dump me in BCN.
I ended up accepting being rebooked on JFK-CDG on Monday. Middle seats, couple of last rows.
On the plus side the staff was always friendly.
I am especially sorry for the two Norwegian flight attendants that apparently do not get paid when they do not fly and had to "take the heat" since there were the only people with a Norwegian uniform around. Things were never really rough but Police was called at one point to help keeping protesters in line.
In short I hope that next Monday's will be a better experience (this is my first time flying Norwegian) but I cannot recommend you gambling with the combo Norwegian+EuroAtlantic if you need to be at a given place at a given time. It's cool if you want to go backpack in Europe and don't care where... but it's not cool if you have a family with you and hotel reservations that are not cancelable.
I hope that I will get compensated 600 euros per person plus the taxi to go back home this morning from EWR and back to JFK on Monday. I plan to update this thread in a couple of weeks with comments about the onboard experience and success getting compensated.
This is certainly another cautionary tale. To be continued...
Last edited by gab787; Aug 19, 2018 at 8:11 am Reason: Fixed CDG airport indicator (had typed CFG by mistake in original post)
Sep 7, 2018, 9:33 pm
#140
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 60
Hi. I have finally experienced Norwegian proper (JFK-CDG) and Norwegian operated by EuroAtlantic (ORY-EWR) and wanted to update this thread (both flights purchased with LowFare "plus" package which includes a checked luggage, a meal, and an assigned seat as you would get on a traditional carrier).
The executive summary is that Norwegian's LowFare "plus" offering is in my opinion of questionable value (even without factoring that flights might be severely delayed or canceled).
While the 787 is nice, besides the LED lighting in the lavatories, it is not much different from any other somewhat modern plane such as the 777 or A330. And the "Nice&Tasty" menu is basically a cheap TV dinner box which is vastly inferior to the meals that other carriers offer on transatlantic flights. Then not getting water between meals is really a letdown. That would be acceptable if prices were much lower than what traditional carriers charge, but that is not necessarily the case.
Thinking about it, I would even say that the service on some US domestic flights such as the "premium service" EWR-SFO in United Economy Plus is better! (better food, and flight attendants offer water virtually nonstop).
On the other hand, the cheaper barebone LowFare option (carry-on only, no meal or drink) might appeal to those on a tight budget.
PS: I have submitted claims for compensation but have yet to hear back from Norwegian.
The executive summary is that Norwegian's LowFare "plus" offering is in my opinion of questionable value (even without factoring that flights might be severely delayed or canceled).
While the 787 is nice, besides the LED lighting in the lavatories, it is not much different from any other somewhat modern plane such as the 777 or A330. And the "Nice&Tasty" menu is basically a cheap TV dinner box which is vastly inferior to the meals that other carriers offer on transatlantic flights. Then not getting water between meals is really a letdown. That would be acceptable if prices were much lower than what traditional carriers charge, but that is not necessarily the case.
Thinking about it, I would even say that the service on some US domestic flights such as the "premium service" EWR-SFO in United Economy Plus is better! (better food, and flight attendants offer water virtually nonstop).
On the other hand, the cheaper barebone LowFare option (carry-on only, no meal or drink) might appeal to those on a tight budget.
PS: I have submitted claims for compensation but have yet to hear back from Norwegian.
Sep 10, 2018, 4:00 pm
#142
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The bottom line problem is that when everything goes well, everything goes well. When it does not, DY, like other ULCC's lacks the infrastructure and backup to do much.
Remember that EC 261/2004 imposes a duty of care in all circumstances, whatever the reason for a delay/cancellation. There is no requirement of vouchers and if you are not provided a hotel room and meals (appropriate to the time of day), hang on to your receipts and keep it reasonable. Submit those and include them with your cancellation/delay claim if that is applicable.
While you should make the claim yourself and perhaps follow up, if court action is required and you are US-based, it is not likely to be fruitful for you in most EU countries other than the UK (where the SCC process generally includes telephonic hearings). Claims agencies can be effective, but will insist on 25-33% of the claim. Annoying, but that is better than $0.
In the end, make sure that you hedge cheap fares with high-end travel insurance which you carefully read and make sure covers what you need. Also, understand that rebooking may take a few days and if your travel plans are inflexible, this is not the way to go. The lowest fare is not always the cheapest trip.
Remember that EC 261/2004 imposes a duty of care in all circumstances, whatever the reason for a delay/cancellation. There is no requirement of vouchers and if you are not provided a hotel room and meals (appropriate to the time of day), hang on to your receipts and keep it reasonable. Submit those and include them with your cancellation/delay claim if that is applicable.
While you should make the claim yourself and perhaps follow up, if court action is required and you are US-based, it is not likely to be fruitful for you in most EU countries other than the UK (where the SCC process generally includes telephonic hearings). Claims agencies can be effective, but will insist on 25-33% of the claim. Annoying, but that is better than $0.
In the end, make sure that you hedge cheap fares with high-end travel insurance which you carefully read and make sure covers what you need. Also, understand that rebooking may take a few days and if your travel plans are inflexible, this is not the way to go. The lowest fare is not always the cheapest trip.
Sep 11, 2018, 11:31 am
#143
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 207
The bottom line problem is that when everything goes well, everything goes well. When it does not, DY, like other ULCC's lacks the infrastructure and backup to do much.
Remember that EC 261/2004 imposes a duty of care in all circumstances, whatever the reason for a delay/cancellation. There is no requirement of vouchers and if you are not provided a hotel room and meals (appropriate to the time of day), hang on to your receipts and keep it reasonable. Submit those and include them with your cancellation/delay claim if that is applicable.
While you should make the claim yourself and perhaps follow up, if court action is required and you are US-based, it is not likely to be fruitful for you in most EU countries other than the UK (where the SCC process generally includes telephonic hearings). Claims agencies can be effective, but will insist on 25-33% of the claim. Annoying, but that is better than $0.
In the end, make sure that you hedge cheap fares with high-end travel insurance which you carefully read and make sure covers what you need. Also, understand that rebooking may take a few days and if your travel plans are inflexible, this is not the way to go. The lowest fare is not always the cheapest trip.
Remember that EC 261/2004 imposes a duty of care in all circumstances, whatever the reason for a delay/cancellation. There is no requirement of vouchers and if you are not provided a hotel room and meals (appropriate to the time of day), hang on to your receipts and keep it reasonable. Submit those and include them with your cancellation/delay claim if that is applicable.
While you should make the claim yourself and perhaps follow up, if court action is required and you are US-based, it is not likely to be fruitful for you in most EU countries other than the UK (where the SCC process generally includes telephonic hearings). Claims agencies can be effective, but will insist on 25-33% of the claim. Annoying, but that is better than $0.
In the end, make sure that you hedge cheap fares with high-end travel insurance which you carefully read and make sure covers what you need. Also, understand that rebooking may take a few days and if your travel plans are inflexible, this is not the way to go. The lowest fare is not always the cheapest trip.
I submitted a compensation claim (600 eur per person) via the website and got no response.
I ended up using resolver (https://www.resolver.co.uk/) to escalate the issue - and after several escalations, which that tool automates, the penalty of 2400 eur hit my bank account today, 10 weeks after I submitted it.
In short, give that a shot, its free. I am also based in the US, not UK, worked fine anyway.
Sep 12, 2018, 2:39 pm
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,154
Sep 13, 2018, 3:30 am
#147
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,154
Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 am
#149
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: C2
Programs: AY ex-Lumo, TK Elite, BT VIP, ITA Executive
Posts: 1,157
They are obliged to offer rerouting as per EC261. For those booked in Economy, they offer e.g. QF direct to LHR. For those booked in Premium, they try to offer the same Economy ticket, which is against EC261 - not really comparable travel conditions.
Has anybody received rerouting options in Premium Economy / Business?
Has anybody received rerouting options in Premium Economy / Business?
Sep 24, 2018, 6:43 pm
#150
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 60
I finally received feedback from Norwegian, which I quote hereunder:"Thank you for contacting us with your claim. We regret the time it’s taken to respond to you and we thank you for your patience. Unfortunately, Norwegian flight DY7192 (EWR-ORY) XXX was cancelled. This disruption was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
______________________________ Flight Disruption Information Norwegian flight: DY7192 (EWR-ORY) XXXDisruption type: CancelledReason for disruption: This cancellation was caused by an inspection of the aircraft following a possible technical fault. During inspection, no technical defect was found. The aircraft was then released for operation without the need to replace any components. ______________________________
Although we respect your request for compensation, we’re unable to honour your claim as your flight was cancelled due to an event, which constitutes extraordinary circumstances."
Next step: I am escalating the matter to the US Department of Transportation...
______________________________ Flight Disruption Information Norwegian flight: DY7192 (EWR-ORY) XXXDisruption type: CancelledReason for disruption: This cancellation was caused by an inspection of the aircraft following a possible technical fault. During inspection, no technical defect was found. The aircraft was then released for operation without the need to replace any components. ______________________________
Although we respect your request for compensation, we’re unable to honour your claim as your flight was cancelled due to an event, which constitutes extraordinary circumstances."
Next step: I am escalating the matter to the US Department of Transportation...