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Does EU 261/2004 apply towards EU territories?

Does EU 261/2004 apply towards EU territories?

Old Mar 25, 2017, 5:04 am
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Does EU 261/2004 apply towards EU territories?

I know EU 261/2004 applies towards EU countries, for I was on a United flight from AMS to ORD which had mechanical issues and delayed for 12 hours. I was compensated 600 Euro's under EU 261/2004 for this United flight.

But does EU 261/2004 apply towards EU territories? Sint Maarten (SXM) is owned by the Netherlands (Dutch). The Dutch fall under the EU, so does SXM fall under the EU 261/2004 rule?
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 5:58 am
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No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...nion#Summary_2
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 7:03 am
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You don't need to rely on Wikipedia, which is often wrong (but not here). The language of EC 261/2004 is quite clear. The answer is clearly "no".


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...lex:32004R0261


As an aside, Sint Maarten is not "owned" by the Netherlands any more than Wisconsin is owned by the US. Sint Maarten is part of the Netherlands. Sint Maarten is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Suggest to someone down there that he is owned by the Netherlands and one might draw a less than positive reaction !
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Old Mar 25, 2017, 7:20 am
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However, IIRC EC261 does have some provisions regarding French overseas departments, specifically where they specify length of flight bands for flights "within" the EU. So I'm not sure the answer is the same for all EU nations, depending on the precise legal status of their territories and other overseas possessions.

More generally, here could be some places that don't seem to be part of Europe that technically are part of the EU and other areas that look like they're in Europe but aren't in the EU/EC.
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Old Mar 27, 2017, 6:25 pm
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The French part of St. Maarten, St. Martin, is indeed part of the EU.
EC 261 applies to all Overseas Territories of France (Runion, Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Polynesia, French Guiana, Mayotte, New Caledonia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Wallis and Futuna, Saint Barthlemy and Saint Martin) and the Spanish exclaves (Ceuta, Melilla, Pen de Vlez de la Gomera) in North Africa.
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Old May 5, 2020, 7:52 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
However, IIRC EC261 does have some provisions regarding French overseas departments, specifically where they specify length of flight bands for flights "within" the EU. So I'm not sure the answer is the same for all EU nations, depending on the precise legal status of their territories and other overseas possessions.

More generally, here could be some places that don't seem to be part of Europe that technically are part of the EU and other areas that look like they're in Europe but aren't in the EU/EC.
Sorry for the thread revival but in context of everything thats going on Im trying to get more context on this.

I had an internal New Caledonian (on Air Caledonie) and a NOU-NRT (on Air Clin) flight cancelled. Their position is vouchers only but due a number of factors I am unlikely to ever travel that route or carrier, and at the very least, Id like my money back for the time being. I emailed the Transportation Ministrys reprsentative in Nouma, and they said that as a territoire doutre-mer, they arent required to comply with EU261 by virtue of not being a full member of the EU.

So Im not sure whether the above is correct or whether the representative was confused. Still waiting to hear back from SB, so maybe they wont take as hard a stance on this.
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Old May 5, 2020, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
So Im not sure whether the above is correct or whether the representative was confused.
Have you asked DGAC in Paris?

New Caledonia is a part of France. Regardless EC261/2004 applies or not, DGAC, as the national enforcement body for France, can give you the exact response you are seeking.
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Old May 5, 2020, 8:31 pm
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I emailed the NC representative of DGAC. I guess I should try the head office.
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Old May 9, 2020, 1:27 am
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Old May 12, 2020, 11:24 pm
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Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim
I emailed the NC representative of DGAC. I guess I should try the head office.
If I remember correctly, France has "suspended" EU261 in regards to refunds, and allow a voucher only policy for French airlines. They probably don't have the legal authority to do that, but before the case has gone through the ECJ, then we will probably be way past this pandemic. I'll have to see if I can find some links to that.
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Old May 12, 2020, 11:39 pm
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I just got an email from Air Caledonie that says:

Dans nos Conditions Gnrales de Transport Article I-Domaine d’application il est prcis que d) les prsentes Conditions Gnrales de Transport sont tablies en application du droit en vigueur en Nouvelle-Caldonie. A ce sujet, le Passager est inform que les rglements europens relatifs au droit du passager arien ne sont applicables aux compagnies ariennes bases en Nouvelle-Caldonie, en ce compris Air-Caldonie.


So basically their contract of carriage explicitly disclaims any EU protections for airlines based in NC. So I guess I'm out of luck... and the worst thing is, they aren't even allowing free reschedules - they will charge a fare difference (and since the tickets I bought were mega-sale ones, it's obvious that I'll have to pay a fare difference no matter what). How is that even legal?...
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Old May 12, 2020, 11:48 pm
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They will pull out the “act of God” on you.
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Old May 12, 2020, 11:55 pm
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Yeah I guess. What shocks me isn't that they're holding my money hostage - I get that they don't want to give up any cash reserves at the moment - but that they insist that I would pay a fare difference when I reschedule.

So you hire a guy to cut your grass, he calls you a day prior and tells you he's sick. He will reschedule for next week, but next week he will charge you extra because he's more busy, but you know, that's life.

How is that even legal, in basic contractual law?
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Old May 13, 2020, 1:03 am
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A lot of 'legal' and 'laws' have gone out of the window or suspended during this crisis. I'm not saying it's right, but the airline business model is not built to withstand zero revenues and continuing costs. No business is. So it becomes a question of whether the consumers collectively want the industry to survive at the other end of it. I view it as a tax to ensure air travel infrastructure. Crudely applied, certainly.
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Old May 13, 2020, 1:14 am
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
A lot of 'legal' and 'laws' have gone out of the window or suspended during this crisis. I'm not saying it's right, but the airline business model is not built to withstand zero revenues and continuing costs. No business is. So it becomes a question of whether the consumers collectively want the industry to survive at the other end of it. I view it as a tax to ensure air travel infrastructure. Crudely applied, certainly.
I mean I get that, which is why I am begrudgingly resigning to never seeing any refunds - but I sincerely hope we can all collectively draw a line at upfaring the tickets at the time of travel. In my specific case, I waited for a sale, and got those tickets for a pretty good price. As Murphy would have it, I am absolutely certain a similar sale will NOT be happening if I ever do manage to even get to NC - so I'm just going to have to pay out of pocket again. So while your concept of tax makes sense, I feel like they're proactively taking it into theft territory. I dunno.
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