IAN-UK

I'm usually the last one to hear any news - but has this story, about QR being on board to mop up a first tranche of TP's privatisation, been doing the rounds?

http://aeiou.expresso.pt/tap-qatar-a...apital=f627404

dutch_122

Very interesting indeed, read it this morning also on www.airliners.net.
let's see what will happen the next couple of weeks.


dutch_122

GBM.flights

I still think it's just wishful thinking of the Portuguese government who was last week touring the middle east to sell debt, and had a few side meeting to try to sell anything else that's losing cash.

Having said that, it would be interesting to have QR invest in some new planes for TP. I'd be happy with Intra Europe planes with AVOD IFE

And let's see if my half dozen miles in TP Victoria end up as Qmiles

GBM

jbcarioca

Because QR does not appear to be profitable and has some issues with new routes TAP could conceivably be of benefit but it is hard to see much other logic in the deal from the buyers perspective. Could TAP actually get better? we can only hope so.

rathin100

I think TAP would be better off with LH LH has a second rate hard product compared to QR and so you wouldnt have passengers yelling quite so much about quality differentials on combined routings *A pax are also very used to these differentials LH would also seamlessly integrate TAP into its European operations adding to group strength It will be able to deal with staff problems at TAP (where there seems to exist IMO a rather oldfashioned sense of entitlement to rpivileged treatment) better being more familair with how to deal with these in a European context.

On the financial front, on the other hand, I dont think anyone is looking for exposure to Portuguese assets or indeed to Portuguese markets as of now.

jbcarioca

Ah, but TAP has excellent access to the very fast growing brazilian market, far more important to them than anything in Portugal.

rathin100

As part of that market +1 ! After my experiences with TAP I would rather take a boat to Europe than fly them So LH can really milk the market buying into TAP QR wont have quite that advantage, no, because they cant offer the Europe connections?

Of course you make a very important point that TAP, given its huge dependence on Brazilian traffic (am I right?), is less of an asset risk than your typical Portuguese company. Its Brazil exposure in fact mitigates its asset risk (just like Pestana, for example) Kind of a Joao II effect :-)

( I am notBrazilian by the way before anyone accuses me of nationalism :-) )

jbcarioca

But I am, although I also hold another nationality too. Still, TAP does hold uniquely valuable traffic rights that could benefit another carrier that had the strength to fix them, not an easy task, but possible.

rathin100

Yes very well put not at all easy to fix TAP but not outside the realms of possibility!

IAN-UK

Could you share those dreadful experiences?

For me TAP is just another airline - albeit one I use a lot as the most convenient way to get from London to some African destinations, and others in Brasil. I find the service adequate to good, nothing exceptional, but certainly nothing that would remotely warrant a response like yours. So what happened ?

rathin100

Ill Pm you so as not to take the thread off topic Ive posted these on airlinequality and also elsewhere on this forum (

TAP-A343

First of all, I'll believe in TAP's privatisation when I see it.

It was tried before in 2000 when Swissair was about to buy a minority share in TAP before it went bankrupt.

After that it has been talked about almost every year. Perhaps now that the Portuguese government needs badly to get some cash, the process will go ahead.

I also think that LH would the best partner for TAP. They are in the same alliance and have already an extensive codeshare partnership. The problem is that LH has already bmi and Austrian to turn around, and SN to finalise its purchase.

I don't understand how TAP would be interesting for QR, unless they are interested in TAP's access to the Brazilian and Portuguese-speaking African markets. As for QR's pax yelling at TP's quality, I believe they probably "yell" much more when flying QR's codeshare partners UA and US when flying domestic in the US.

I also think that TAP staff still has a "top civil servant" attitude that has to change.

Actually, TAP, the airline, has been profitable almost every year since 2000, the biggest exception being 2008. What has turned TAP Group into the red in the last 2 years is Groundforce (their handling company) and TAP Maintenance Brazil (previously VEM).

I'm interested in knowing what will be privatised, TAP the airline or TAP Group.

I share the same opinion except that TAP is my country's flag carrier.

I only fly TAP on intra-European routes in Y and just having complimentary catering makes TAP better than many European traditional airlines for me.

In the last 4 years of flying regularly with them I can only complain about the loss of my suitcase once (it was sent to me a couple of days later) and a certain degree of lack of punctuality that has been improving though.

Furnle

Well, as TP is also my country's flag carrier, I think it has some good and bad things. Lack of punctuality is one, the attitude is another. But TP is better than IB, SN, JK, SAS, Air Lingus, and, in short-haul, also better than BA in inflight service.

I agree with you about the complimentary catering, speacially now that LH has changed them.
QR has a lot of interest, as TP is a open door to Brazil and also some african destinations. But I think a lot of it is speculation, trying to inflate TP price

But, even if I don't usually travel with TP, I can say: They've improved a lot in the last years. I had really a bad experience with TP in 2002, and a lot better in 2007 (long-haul, both).

TAP-A343

In my opinion, the biggest problem in TP's privatisation is their accumulated EUR 2 billion + debt.

jbcarioca

That has been the chief impediment in several privatisations. This one could happen IMO, if the government accepts the reality that they cannot afford to continue subsidies. That has been a bitter pill for several countries. I hope Portugal is prepared to do it. There are better places for public money than TAP.