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China Eastern MU5735 737-800 [not MAX] Crashed 21 March 2022, 132 onboard

China Eastern MU5735 737-800 [not MAX] Crashed 21 March 2022, 132 onboard

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Old Mar 20, 22, 8:38 pm   -   Wikipost
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Old May 18, 22, 7:36 am
  #226  
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Originally Posted by Gertjaars View Post
Terrifying news all around. 3 pilots (main, co-, and shadowing) in the same cockpit, no sign of terrorism/no one attempted to break into the cockpit, no emergency code spoken on the recording, and yet with 3 people in the same pit, the plane nosedived in a almost 90 degree angle. Flight recording data has enough evidence showing the 3 of them had an agreement/intended allowing this to happen.

Not a single peep from the Chinese media.
Its quite a jump to go from intentional act of a pilot to a suicide pact among all three pilots. Look how little time there was from the start of the dive to the crash. Its easy to imagine a single pilot waiting for an opportune moment (e.g., other pilot at controls uses the lav). It would take some time for the third pilot to get behind the controls in that nearly vertical dive. Utter chaos in the cockpit in that situation.
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Old May 18, 22, 10:19 am
  #227  
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Originally Posted by Gertjaars View Post
Terrifying news all around. 3 pilots (main, co-, and shadowing) in the same cockpit, no sign of terrorism/no one attempted to break into the cockpit, no emergency code spoken on the recording, and yet with 3 people in the same pit, the plane nosedived in a almost 90 degree angle. Flight recording data has enough evidence showing the 3 of them had an agreement/intended allowing this to happen.

Not a single peep from the Chinese media.
Do we know for sure that all three were in the cockpit at the time? If one goes to the lavatory and is locked out, can the trainee prevent a crash or even recognize immediately that something is very wrong?
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Old May 18, 22, 10:34 am
  #228  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Do we know for sure that all three were in the cockpit at the time? If one goes to the lavatory and is locked out, can the trainee prevent a crash or even recognize immediately that something is very wrong?
Everyone on that plane must have recognized immediately that something was terribly wrong, assuming the altitude data weve seen is accurate. That was either weightlessness or close to it. That also must have made it more difficult for a pilot to move into one of the seats at the controls if not already seated there.
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Old May 18, 22, 12:00 pm
  #229  
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Originally Posted by Gertjaars View Post
Terrifying news all around. 3 pilots (main, co-, and shadowing) in the same cockpit, no sign of terrorism/no one attempted to break into the cockpit, no emergency code spoken on the recording, and yet with 3 people in the same pit, the plane nosedived in a almost 90 degree angle. Flight recording data has enough evidence showing the 3 of them had an agreement/intended allowing this to happen.

Not a single peep from the Chinese media.
Have they been able to read the audio recorder, or only the flight data recorder? I personally find it HIGHLY unlikely that there was a conspiracy to do this. (I predicted, very early on, that when they find the Malaysian plane they will find that the co-pilot was killed by the pilot - although the passage of time makes it less likely that they will ever solve that one.)
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Old May 18, 22, 1:54 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Do we know for sure that all three were in the cockpit at the time? If one goes to the lavatory and is locked out, can the trainee prevent a crash or even recognize immediately that something is very wrong?
The temporary recovering almost speaks to a struggle but that would seem much more likely with only two in the cockpit. With three I'd think the two that want to live could overpower the one that wants to die (if it's not a pact between them).
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Old May 18, 22, 2:07 pm
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The odds of a pact suicide-homicide between three separate pilots would be astronomically low...
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Old May 18, 22, 2:50 pm
  #232  
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Originally Posted by nk15 View Post
The odds of a pact suicide-homicide between three separate pilots would be astronomically low...
Indeed. A commercial pilot would be putting their whole career at risk in even touching on the idea with another pilot. Quite unlikely the other pilot would be onboard for the idea, and quite likely they report the conversation to management. Also, it's hardly necessary for a suicidal pilot to have the cooperation of anyone else. There's not much an airline can do to prevent this, aside from mental health checks and the like. Thankfully, this is an extremely rare occurrence.
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Old May 18, 22, 3:05 pm
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Is there confirmation that 3 pilots were in the cockpit at the time?

How about the condition of the CVR, can any noises like bangging on the cockpit door be heard?
Once again I think we are in the realm of human psyche and that stuff is left up to China in a final report if at all.
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Old May 18, 22, 5:40 pm
  #234  
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Originally Posted by Lomapaseo View Post
Is there confirmation that 3 pilots were in the cockpit at the time?
........
This
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Old May 18, 22, 7:35 pm
  #235  
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Originally Posted by Lomapaseo View Post
Is there confirmation that 3 pilots were in the cockpit at the time?
It would seem anomalous to us, well, FlyerTalkers, if at no point in the >2 hour flight did either of the pilots at the controls step out for a lav break, or simply to walk about.
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Old May 18, 22, 9:31 pm
  #236  
 
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Originally Posted by dhuey View Post
It would seem anomalous to us, well, FlyerTalkers, if at no point in the >2 hour flight did either of the pilots at the controls step out for a lav break, or simply to walk about.
Yeah, ever since the newish rule about no pilot being alone in the cockpit came about I always watch the "handoff" from one of the pilots to the FA that goes in and takes their place. It's pretty "lazy" a lot of the time and a pilot could easily just throw the FA out and slam the door if that was really his/her wish. I suppose the rule is better than nothing but if a pilot is hellbent on crashing the plane I think they will figure out a way.
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Old May 18, 22, 10:26 pm
  #237  
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Originally Posted by mtofell View Post
Yeah, ever since the newish rule about no pilot being alone in the cockpit came about I always watch the "handoff" from one of the pilots to the FA that goes in and takes their place. It's pretty "lazy" a lot of the time and a pilot could easily just throw the FA out and slam the door if that was really his/her wish. I suppose the rule is better than nothing but if a pilot is hellbent on crashing the plane I think they will figure out a way.
Our friends upthread noted how Chinese airlines have an atypical practice of placing a third pilot, on-duty, in the cockpit. I guess this is part of the training regimen for new pilots. I don't know, but I would imagine this means they don't swap a flight attendant in for a pilot leaving the cockpit.
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Old May 18, 22, 11:02 pm
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The third pilot/trainee is probably for most intents and purposes not able to do anything of consequence, so, in theory, if, say, the FO is in the lav, the captain could relatively easily crash the plane. Just a hypothetical.

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Old May 19, 22, 4:24 am
  #239  
 
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer View Post
I find it interesting that you single out one quote to try and prove a point. LarryJ never said it was not intentional, just that it was premature to conclude that, which is an entirely reasonable take. As his posts made clear, it was about keeping an open mind, and not jumping to conclusions on something when you have no data to back it up (which anyone saying this was obviously intentional, without seeing any of the data recorder data, would be talking out their rear end). Thank goodness most users in this thread aren't actual investigator, or we'd never get to the root cause of accidents since they would latch on to the most sensational or first theory they come up with.

Ever heard of confirmation bias? If you go into it
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Old May 19, 22, 1:04 pm
  #240  
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Originally Posted by nancypants View Post
If I could like your post 100 times I would
Same here. I'm grateful whenever I see commercial pilots like LarryJ post on FlyerTalk. Obviously these are the among the most informed posters on flying airplanes and trying to piece together what went wrong in crashes. Even if my guess on pilot sabotage in this crash turns out to be right, the pilots here are going to be much better guessers than I am, generally.
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