ProleOnParole

Maybe China Airlines could acquire the defunct TWA brand?

The name resembles the ISO 3166-2 code "TW" but steers clear of any political connotations.

TWA had a long history dating back to the 1930s.

They even used to fly to Taipei:


TWA World Routes 1972

TerryK

That is creative. It can also use IATA code TW for flight numbers.

Eclipsed830

I think that's a pretty mainstream view that Qing and KMT were colonizers. Should we not call the Japanese colonizers either? The Dutch? They all acquired Taiwan in similar ways. The very basic definition of a colonizer is "a country that sends settlers to a place and establishes political control over it". ROC/KMT and Qing were definitely colonizers in this context.

Eclipsed830

This isn't true from my experience (I am under 30 for the person who asked), basically all of my friends identify simply as "Taiwanese", both culturally and ethnically. I have one Taiwanese-American friend who identifies as Chinese ethnically, but he married a Chinese woman and his father was ranked pretty high within the KMT before they moved to America in the 1990's.

ernestnywang

Qing and KMT are definitively not colonisers in mainstream POV. Even textbook edited under the DPP government would not say so. This is the POV of some extremist parties like Taiwan Statebuilding Party, but certainly not an official POV of even DPP. Dutch, Spanish, and Japanese are and have always been considered by most Taiwanese to be foreigners. Throughout most of the Qing period and the KMT totalitarian period, most Taiwanese people do not consider the administrators or power-holders to be foreigners. It is only until recently that a non-negligible portion of people in Taiwan started to consider (Mainland) Chinese as foreigners, and even that is a development still under way. In everyday language, the term "foreigner" (外國人) in general still does not include (Mainland) Chinese, while the term "going out of / leaving the country" (出國) does include going to (Mainland) China. This is indeed not 100% logical but shows that people still have mixed feeling toward whether (Mainland) China is another country / (Mainland) Chinese are foreigners.

I assume you read Chinese. A random search yielded a random thread like this (https://forum.gamer.com.tw/C.php?bsn=60318&snA=504) in a forum (where most participants are young people) clearly indicated that calling Qing a coloniser is not the mainstream POV, or else the OP wouldn't have asked whether there are others who think so, and in fact, didn't quite get a response that suggests so.

Eclipsed830

That's funny... the Dutch came before the Qing, but the Dutch were considered foreigners, while the Qing wasn't? I'm pretty sure the indigenous community would probably disagree with you on that one... I think if we went by the standard academic definition of a colonizing force, both the Qing and KMT would be included in the cut.

Interesting thread you linked, but it's nearly 6 years old and only has 6 replies... a lot has changed in the last 6 years when it comes to issues revolving around the indigenous history and the white terror era.

ernestnywang

The Dutch administered Taiwan (or part of Taiwan) via a "company" and certainly did not treat the Taiwanese people (whether aborigines or Chinese immigrants) the same way they treated the Dutch people themselves. The Qing government administered Taiwan pretty much the same way they administered much of Mainland China (apart from Manchuria, Mongolia, Tibet, etc.). Taiwan was initially part of the Fukien/Fujian province and later on a province of its own. Taiwan was never set up as a colony by Qing. There is a substantial difference between the two.

The KMT arguably administered Taiwan a bit differently from Mainland China when the ROC took over in 1945, but in 1947 the provincial government was set up just like any other province. What happened after 1949 was a totalitarian regime that deprived human rights of its citizens, not a colonising force that exerted control over a territory outside of its territory proper.

If going with your definition, one should definitely consider Siberia a colony of Russia and likewise Louisiana, California, Alaska, etc. colonies of the US. In the case of Louisiana, it was considered by most to be a French colony. Even though the US purchased Louisiana, the mainstream POV does not consider it a US colony. I'm not saying no one thinks that, but this is certainly not the majority view. I don't see how Taiwan is substantially different from Louisiana in this case. In fact, both Louisiana and Alaska were purchased; Taiwan wasn't even purchased by Qing or the ROC.

Things change, and I don't know if there will ever be a day when the mainstream POV changes to the point where people consider Taiwan a past colony of Qing and a current colony of the ROC. Such changes take a long time to happen, and 6 years certainly isn't enough time.

Kamalaasaa

This wouldn’t help,.I fear. To the extent that Americans, at least, recognize “Mandarin” (other than in “mandarin oranges”), it is as the language of mainland China. So no net gain there, and probably a loss.

ernestnywang

https://cc.tvbs.com.tw/portal/file/p...f78e86c0de.pdf, page 3:

51% are against name change of CI; only 26% are pro-name change. If people were to choose the name, 50% would choose China Airlines while 27%+10%=37% would favour either "Taiwan Airlines" or "Formosa Airlines." I agree TVBS is blue-leaning, but I think the difference is substantial enough to cover the bias. In short, there are more people who would rather keep the name of CI than those who would like to change it.

coolfish1103

Well, any changes to the branding would be a loss but it's a way to resolve the issue without needing to change the name.

I speak Chinese.
I speak Mandarin.

I am quite certain most Taiwanese would choose the latter if they are not speaking native Taiwanese or Hakka.

TerryK

TWA will be similar to EVA, three letters, no official name. You can interpret it as Taiwan Airlines or Trans World Airlines depending on your political belief. AA will probably sell TWA trademark at a reasonable price at this moment.

longliveKA

Quite funny considering that when Spaniards detached from Manila landed in Taiwan in the early 1600's, they didn't find "ethnically chinese" people, but "aboriginal people", the likes of those living in Eastern Taiwan now. As can be deduced from the incredible amount of reports that where sent by jesuits and Spanish army men alike to Manila (A two volume book written by a Spanish scholar and published about 10 years ago includes reproductions and transcriptions of all the correspondence related to Formosa that has been kept in archives in Spain, Mexico and Manila). So, I would only consider Yanzumin to be "Original Taiwanese" .... That would of course very much annoy 99,99% of Taiwanese. I doubt very much that this would be accepted or even known by a large part of the population. The KMT did quite a good nationalistic brain wash since they took over.
In any case the fact remains, as well as the mostly hidden facts that a great number of taiwanese (of any etnicity) where enrolled in the Japanese Imperial Army and dispatched to SEA and China during WWII or kept in Taiwan as wardens in Japanese POW camps scattered all over the island (and nasty places these were indeed). If I remember well, I believe one of the last fighting Japanese soldiers to surrender in the 50's or 60's was a Taiwanese aborigine that kept attacking people in The Philippines or Indonesia. The KMT and Japan had quite a hard time figuring out what to do with the poor chap when he finally surrendered and had to be repatriated to the ROC.

Disgressions aside, Dinasty Airlines would keep with the historic call sign of CI, and might be much less politically sensitive than Formosa Airlines, or Taiwan Airlines...
If you really want to go local: Fong Li airlines (as proposed by another poster), Flying Santaizi (三太子) Airlines, "Luroufan" (滷肉饭) Airlines, or "Da siricon" (as put silicone) Airlines could also accurately reflect the spirit of Taiwan :-)

Kamalaasaa

OK, gotta confess - every time I see Dynasty Airlines, I think this:

ProleOnParole

To be fair, "Dynasty" is CI's callsign and FFP. Their intra-Asia J product used to be called "Dynasty Class." The name is also plastered around on a number of other things like the in-flight magazine. Not sure where it came from, it's not derived from what they call their FFP in Chinese ("華夏," which is actually a good name as it's related to the airline's "中華"). While it wouldn't hurt them to come up with something better, weird FFP names are par for the course ("Flying Blue" anyone?). I do hope though it's not going to be the new name for the whole airline.

As an aside, "Dynasty" the TV series was first supposed to be called "Oil," but it didn't stick...

tris06

I think it is always good to stay clear of politics although hard to avoid concerning CI.

(In reply to all the talk before)
It is no doubt that the older people think of the dutch as a foreign power just like the Spanish although majority of Taiwanese think positively about when Taiwan administered in many respects a Japanese province. But that is more of the fact that education taught that.
Like in Tainan it seems it was celebrated that the dutch were kicked out and yet it seems that is changing over the more recent times. It was the dutch that took the risk to start settlements when the Chinese did not dare on the wild island of Taiwan proper. Also I do not think the dutch treated the people that bad compared to any civilisation of that day. The aboriginals probably did get killed in skirmishes through the years but they were very violent. Even when the exiled Ming army came they were attacked by the aboriginals and it was hardly any different after the dutch left. Also there is a display in that same museum of them requesting help from the emperor in the mid 1800's in the form of some officals to visit. This was never replied and no one came. (1860s) The Qing Emperor said to the French and British that Taiwanese pirates were nothing to do with them as it (Taiwan) was outside its borders.

There are some concerning vibes in chinese culture (some aspects not all) that like to bunch ethnic chinese together against everyone else. In Mainland China they use the word "Hua ren" to discribe all overseas chinese and so they still see them as chinese at heart and not foreigners . Taiwan would do well to squash this thinking in their education system as this is what it is like in Mainland China.

Getting back to the topic we should be talking about, The name of the airline I really don't care if it changes. All they need to make sure is changing the name wont lose them lots of recognition or lose any air rights.
But if I was Taiwanese I suppose I could see it differently.