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China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?

China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?

Old Feb 8, 19, 1:41 am
  #1  
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Question China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?

There are discussions in this thread: Information for Airlines based in Taiwan and latest by CI is here: https://news.china-airlines.com/emer/info_en.aspx

I am reading some of the news articles (which quote people's messaging apps - not exactly best journalism) and wonder if things are really that bad such as pilots are working unsafe hours, hiring unqualified foreign pilots, etc. https://udn.com/news/story/7241/3633806

Are things that bad? I know we have some insiders here...
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Old Feb 8, 19, 8:33 am
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CI union it too greedy.

pilots average at low of 51.6 hours per month on A330 to high of 74 hours per month on the 777.

average salary for pilot is $170k USD per year.

given the low tax rate in taiwan. The pilots are quiet well off.

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549616984.A.8BF.html

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Old Feb 8, 19, 9:06 am
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Originally Posted by krispykrme View Post
CI union it too greedy.

pilots average at low of 51.6 hours per month on A330 to high of 74 hours per month on the 777.

average salary for pilot is $170k USD per year.

given the low tax rate in taiwan. The pilots are quiet well off.

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549616984.A.8BF.html

While not the best salary in the world of pilots it is still quite good.

So the B777 pilots of course must have the highest salary for the higher number of hours per month. A pilot would usually serve how many hrs on average for a 12-14hr flight? 6-8hrs?

So they need to take 10 flights on average per month? 2.5 flights per week? Seems reasonable.

All long haul flights went out tonight between 8pm to midnight. So it seems the system is still functioning. Some flights to HKG and BKK are getting cancelled but they have multiple flights per day to these destinations so they can mostly move passengers to earlier or later flights.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 8:43 am
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Some HKG flights cancelled and they have asked HX to put on extra relief flights to accommodate their passengers.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 1:05 pm
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In addition to the use of cadet pilots, media is reporting CI dispatched flights with less than the required crew for the scheduled block time. The MOTC and CAA are now stepping in to investigate as it is a serious safety issue.

Pilots said they have 5 main claims that must be met to end the strike the rest can be negotiated down the road.
1. 13th month pay similar to rival BR. Taiwan labor law is counted by the week, meaning that at the end of the year, pilots are shorted about 5 weeks because of calendar discrepancy. They want to be paid for the "13th month" because they work during those discrepancy days.
2. Duty Scheduling as Follows:
> 8 hours = single-augmented
> 12 = double-augmented
3. Assurance there will be no retaliation
4. Red-eye/Late night flight pay bonus NT3000-4000 per landing or additional outstation rest (these routes are the same ones that caused the 2016 FA strike...could CI really not adjust accordingly for both work groups?)
5. Removal of incompetent management, including the current VP of Flight Operations

However bad I feel bad for CI mgmt, they brought this on themselves by promising the FA's the moon back in 2016. Now, there have been nothing but contentious relations with every single work group.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 3:32 pm
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Originally Posted by hayzel7773 View Post
In addition to the use of cadet pilots, media is reporting CI dispatched flights with less than the required crew for the scheduled block time. The MOTC and CAA are now stepping in to investigate as it is a serious safety issue.

Pilots said they have 5 main claims that must be met to end the strike the rest can be negotiated down the road.
1. 13th month pay similar to rival BR. Taiwan labor law is counted by the week, meaning that at the end of the year, pilots are shorted about 5 weeks because of calendar discrepancy. They want to be paid for the "13th month" because they work during those discrepancy days.
2. Duty Scheduling as Follows:
> 8 hours = single-augmented
> 12 = double-augmented
3. Assurance there will be no retaliation
4. Red-eye/Late night flight pay bonus NT3000-4000 per landing or additional outstation rest (these routes are the same ones that caused the 2016 FA strike...could CI really not adjust accordingly for both work groups?)
5. Removal of incompetent management, including the current VP of Flight Operations

However bad I feel bad for CI mgmt, they brought this on themselves by promising the FA's the moon back in 2016. Now, there have been nothing but contentious relations with every single work group.
Thank you for the updates, it's good to hear more detailed information on why there is a strike.

A strike is never pleasant, especially for us travelers but this one seems to have been long overdue and necessary. I have flown China Airlines a few times and we are booked again next month for 4 sectors with them (hopefully strike will be over in March) as I really wanted to try their new PE class but service has consistently been sub-par compared to EVA and of course to most other Asian carriers like JAL and Singapore Airlines which I also fly often.
I do like their (China Airlines') hard product and I think they've come a long way from the days when they were considered rather unsafe.

Hopefully this strike will help them to go a step up and I think they would be in a great position to compete even better with their other home carrier EVA.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 5:33 pm
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Union is asking any flights over 7 hours has 3 crew. Which is probably world first.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 7:59 pm
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Originally Posted by krispykrme View Post
Union is asking any flights over 7 hours has 3 crew. Which is probably world first.
Union is asking for >8 hours=3 crew, not 7 hours. The 8 hour limit is not a world first.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 7:59 pm
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Originally Posted by yvrcnx View Post
Thank you for the updates, it's good to hear more detailed information on why there is a strike.

A strike is never pleasant, especially for us travelers but this one seems to have been long overdue and necessary. I have flown China Airlines a few times and we are booked again next month for 4 sectors with them (hopefully strike will be over in March) as I really wanted to try their new PE class but service has consistently been sub-par compared to EVA and of course to most other Asian carriers like JAL and Singapore Airlines which I also fly often.
I do like their (China Airlines') hard product and I think they've come a long way from the days when they were considered rather unsafe.

Hopefully this strike will help them to go a step up and I think they would be in a great position to compete even better with their other home carrier EVA.
This strike is not going to improve service in the cabin.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 8:47 pm
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Originally Posted by hayzel7773 View Post
This strike is not going to improve service in the cabin.
I don't expect that the strike itself will improve cabin service, especially not in the short term but sometimes, if conditions for those involved improve, the working environment is a more positive one and it reflects in attitudes.
One can only hope.
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Old Feb 9, 19, 10:19 pm
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The other thing I found kind of customer-unfriendly is their https://news.china-airlines.com/emer/info_en.aspx webpage basically said we will follow the Contract of Carriage ("“strike” is a matter beyond the control of the airline...").

It is kind of bad to quote legalese when the passengers are suffering. How much flexibility do the agents have rebooking passengers - especially if it is not a CI issued ticket (seems even on day of travel)?
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Old Feb 10, 19, 4:34 am
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Originally Posted by hayzel7773 View Post
Union is asking for >8 hours=3 crew, not 7 hours. The 8 hour limit is not a world first.
From what we can gather, it' now being pushed to 7 hours by Lee from EVA.

It will be a never ending cycle jumping from BR to CI and FA to Pilots. CI might as well just shut down and let a private firm take over.
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Old Feb 10, 19, 7:42 am
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Originally Posted by coolfish1103 View Post
It will be a never ending cycle jumping from BR to CI and FA to Pilots. CI might as well just shut down and let a private firm take over.
At a perfect time to transfer traffic rights and slots to Starlux Taiwan's sky will be dominated by the Chang family.
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Old Feb 10, 19, 1:36 pm
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Originally Posted by hayzel7773 View Post
Union is asking for >8 hours=3 crew, not 7 hours. The 8 hour limit is not a world first.
check news again

https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realti...90210/1515120/

its 7 hours not 8
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Old Feb 10, 19, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by krispykrme View Post


check news again

https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realti...90210/1515120/

its 7 hours not 8
The original news. The union initially asking for 8hrs, which includes the ground time + flight time, however CI management insist only 8hrs flight time. In the end, union proposes 7hrs flight time instead of 8hrs ground + flight time.

https://udn.com/news/story/7241/3635896

This is due to the reason that normally flight crew and pilots require about 1-2hours at ground for briefing and preparing before departure, then maybe another 30mins+ after arrival. This means that if 8 hours flight time, it equal to total of 10 hours of non stop work.
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