China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?
Feb 21, 2019, 9:27 am
#91
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LAX, MEX, MLM, ONT, SAL
Programs: DL Silver Medallion
Posts: 127
Putting the A350 on the route was to improve the passenger side of profitability.
It could be down to CI's poor planning for cargo operations the A350 will make more money on each kg of cargo that is flown but of course lose money if they have to pay a fee to get that additional cargo to go another airline or etc..
Also I think from memory the Rolls royce engines only have 87k pounds of thrust per engine where the B777-300ER is significantly higher which limits the amount of max load the A350 can handle.
It could be down to CI's poor planning for cargo operations the A350 will make more money on each kg of cargo that is flown but of course lose money if they have to pay a fee to get that additional cargo to go another airline or etc..
Also I think from memory the Rolls royce engines only have 87k pounds of thrust per engine where the B777-300ER is significantly higher which limits the amount of max load the A350 can handle.
It seems its been an entire mess with ONT. CI should had just kept the 77W and stayed 5 days a week to keep similar A350 maximum number of seats they're able to sell, and have the ample space to ship their freight back TPE. With that, keeping the A350 in Oceania and perhaps the Brisbane-Auckland route would not be finding itself in the chopping block.
I mention this since the loads in ONT every since the switch to nights have been above 80%.
OCT 2018 was the last time 77W saw service in ONT, running 5 days a week. The load for that month was 82.9% similar to DEC when using the A359 with a LF of 83.1% going daily.
In the end, it won't matter if ONT, BNE-AKL routes get cut.
Though, it would be valuable lesson on how not to open a route, and just throw the kitchen sink at it, then try to fix it afterwards.
Feb 21, 2019, 10:04 am
#92
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Regarding 77W and A359 you're right. A359 has 84,200lbs of thrust per engine with a MTOW of 617,000 while the 77W has 115,300lbs thrust per engine with a MTOW of 775,000.
It seems its been an entire mess with ONT. CI should had just kept the 77W and stayed 5 days a week to keep similar A350 maximum number of seats they're able to sell, and have the ample space to ship their freight back TPE. With that, keeping the A350 in Oceania and perhaps the Brisbane-Auckland route would not be finding itself in the chopping block.
I mention this since the loads in ONT every since the switch to nights have been above 80%.
OCT 2018 was the last time 77W saw service in ONT, running 5 days a week. The load for that month was 82.9% similar to DEC when using the A359 with a LF of 83.1% going daily.
In the end, it won't matter if ONT, BNE-AKL routes get cut.
Though, it would be valuable lesson on how not to open a route, and just throw the kitchen sink at it, then try to fix it afterwards.
It seems its been an entire mess with ONT. CI should had just kept the 77W and stayed 5 days a week to keep similar A350 maximum number of seats they're able to sell, and have the ample space to ship their freight back TPE. With that, keeping the A350 in Oceania and perhaps the Brisbane-Auckland route would not be finding itself in the chopping block.
I mention this since the loads in ONT every since the switch to nights have been above 80%.
OCT 2018 was the last time 77W saw service in ONT, running 5 days a week. The load for that month was 82.9% similar to DEC when using the A359 with a LF of 83.1% going daily.
In the end, it won't matter if ONT, BNE-AKL routes get cut.
Though, it would be valuable lesson on how not to open a route, and just throw the kitchen sink at it, then try to fix it afterwards.
Specific to ONT, CI had no choice in the original service. The route decision was highly political, but sold as “convenience”.
Feb 23, 2019, 9:15 am
#93
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,895
Interesting. Then from were did they get this info.
I was chatting last night with one of the loaders who works the A359 in ONT. I told him of CI possibly being cut from ONT, and he thanked me for the heads up, though was bummed since he and the other workers were hired exclusively to work that flight. If CI pulls out it virtually means they're out of work. Felt bad for him. He told me, nothing has been said to them, so he'll continue to work until they're told something.
However, he did reveal they're having problems with the A359. He mentioned ever since the A359 entered service at ONT, they've been having weight and balance issues, and in addition, are losing money due to not sending freight cargo back to TPE. So, to that, CI notified them they're bringing back 77W to ONT. He didn't give me a set date when the 77W would be back at ONT. Though, with this monkey wrench thrown at the moment, who knows what's going to happen either ONT gets cut or they bring back the 77W.
I was chatting last night with one of the loaders who works the A359 in ONT. I told him of CI possibly being cut from ONT, and he thanked me for the heads up, though was bummed since he and the other workers were hired exclusively to work that flight. If CI pulls out it virtually means they're out of work. Felt bad for him. He told me, nothing has been said to them, so he'll continue to work until they're told something.
However, he did reveal they're having problems with the A359. He mentioned ever since the A359 entered service at ONT, they've been having weight and balance issues, and in addition, are losing money due to not sending freight cargo back to TPE. So, to that, CI notified them they're bringing back 77W to ONT. He didn't give me a set date when the 77W would be back at ONT. Though, with this monkey wrench thrown at the moment, who knows what's going to happen either ONT gets cut or they bring back the 77W.
Also, the 359 cargo deck design is not very friendly to load, so it may cause balance issues when going out on a full flight.
I highly doubt ONT will be cut, it's a political route after all. As I previously mentioned, I see it coming back to a 77W and will stay daily (especially since 77W is not at full capacity).
Yes, CI has been routing cargo via ONT and then clear customs at LAX. It's not exactly a smart thing to do so but if you need the capacity it's there.
I think what's going to happen is:
1. ONT goes back to daily 77W NS19.
2. BNE-AKL goes back to 359 NS19.
3. MEL goes back to 359 NS19.
4. SYD reduced to daily (as usual).
5. LGW reduced to 4 weekly.
6. LAX may get CI 6/5 back on a 4-5 weekly 77W basis if correct slot permits.
Feb 23, 2019, 4:35 pm
#94
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BWI
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 165
What's funny is that CI only has ~150 foreign pilots, compared to BR's 400+. But you don't get a peep about foreigners at BR!
I will repeat that FA's are the whole cause of this disaster. Greedy FA's led to greedy pilots, since they found out that they can ask for the moon and get it. Also, I find it very concerning CI did not implement FRMS or utilize Jeppesen model scheduling for their crew members. CI6 comes to mind when you hear about these things at the negotiations.
Keep fighting, Chairman Ho!
I will repeat that FA's are the whole cause of this disaster. Greedy FA's led to greedy pilots, since they found out that they can ask for the moon and get it. Also, I find it very concerning CI did not implement FRMS or utilize Jeppesen model scheduling for their crew members. CI6 comes to mind when you hear about these things at the negotiations.
Keep fighting, Chairman Ho!
Full Disclosure: Since DL's retrenchment, CI has been my airline to SE Asia.
Feb 23, 2019, 6:59 pm
#95
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
All the pilots are running to mainland China to fly for 2-3x the salary at home.
Feb 24, 2019, 1:22 am
#96
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 463
Pilot salaries are far higher in mainland China so they work for airlines there. After all it is quite close to home and speaks the same language.
Feb 24, 2019, 6:14 am
#97
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BWI
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 165
I can see why the pilots might be unhappy. If there is that big of a shortage of Mandarin-speaking pilots, maybe their wages should increase.
Another point: If China can send spacecraft to the moon, why don't they train more pilots?
Feb 25, 2019, 2:12 am
#98
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: Dynasty Frequent Flyer (Elite Plus),Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,866
Now that I have picked my jaw up off the floor.....
I can see why the pilots might be unhappy. If there is that big of a shortage of Mandarin-speaking pilots, maybe their wages should increase.
Another point: If China can send spacecraft to the moon, why don't they train more pilots?
I can see why the pilots might be unhappy. If there is that big of a shortage of Mandarin-speaking pilots, maybe their wages should increase.
Another point: If China can send spacecraft to the moon, why don't they train more pilots?
If chinese cabin crew were paid anywhere near the rate Taiwanese staff get then I am pretty sure Chinese airlines would lose money and could Never compete with other airlines. Different country , different market that is it really. CI can get pilots from outside Taiwan but the union does not want them to do this. This is already distorting the market.
Feb 26, 2019, 8:06 am
#99
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,895
Capped at $50K per year for wiring out and it will take numerous transactions to make sure your life is difficult, or bring them out every time you leave China at 20K CNY a trip.
Feb 26, 2019, 1:42 pm
#100
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Good luck getting those $ out of China. If you are spending inside then I guess it won't matter.
Capped at $50K per year for wiring out and it will take numerous transactions to make sure your life is difficult, or bring them out every time you leave China at 20K CNY a trip.
Capped at $50K per year for wiring out and it will take numerous transactions to make sure your life is difficult, or bring them out every time you leave China at 20K CNY a trip.
Most airlines hiring expats have already been given PRC authority for them to wire money out of China as needed.
Feb 26, 2019, 3:26 pm
#101
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: Dynasty Frequent Flyer (Elite Plus),Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,866
Actually it is for everyone. And to be honest it is tougher if your not a chinese citizen. Living in Shenzhen it often takes me up to 2hrs in the bank to exchange money. Most times they even flatly reject me at first saying I cannot exchange the money as I am a foriegner or I am limited to 500USD max per day. I insist and show all the documentation that I paid taxes and etc. I then take up to 20k AUD when I fly back to Australja a couple times per year. I could wire it but then I am a cheap guy who want to aviod paying the cost of electronic transfer.
Feb 28, 2019, 10:34 pm
#102
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LAX, MEX, MLM, ONT, SAL
Programs: DL Silver Medallion
Posts: 127
I highly doubt ONT will be cut, it's a political route after all. As I previously mentioned, I see it coming back to a 77W and will stay daily (especially since 77W is not at full capacity).
Yes, CI has been routing cargo via ONT and then clear customs at LAX. It's not exactly a smart thing to do so but if you need the capacity it's there.
I think what's going to happen is:
1. ONT goes back to daily 77W NS19.
2. BNE-AKL goes back to 359 NS19.
3. MEL goes back to 359 NS19.
4. SYD reduced to daily (as usual).
5. LGW reduced to 4 weekly.
6. LAX may get CI 6/5 back on a 4-5 weekly 77W basis if correct slot permits.
Yes, CI has been routing cargo via ONT and then clear customs at LAX. It's not exactly a smart thing to do so but if you need the capacity it's there.
I think what's going to happen is:
1. ONT goes back to daily 77W NS19.
2. BNE-AKL goes back to 359 NS19.
3. MEL goes back to 359 NS19.
4. SYD reduced to daily (as usual).
5. LGW reduced to 4 weekly.
6. LAX may get CI 6/5 back on a 4-5 weekly 77W basis if correct slot permits.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/c...network-880674
Mar 1, 2019, 12:58 am
#103
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,895
Seems the news of the cuts was as someone constantly mentions 'fake news'. CI released a press announcement disproving the rumors and using ONT as an example.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/c...network-880674
https://centreforaviation.com/news/c...network-880674
No one is claiming CI will cut or reduce frequency on any routes at the moment, it's all being said for future schedule that starts as early as Winter 2019.
Which routes are profitable? To be honest only CI knows. However, it's been said JFK has never been profitable except one year.
I say this is just a press release clean up mess. After all who would want to fly/book CI if it's going to cut or reduce flights on a route?
