China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?
Feb 11, 2019, 10:16 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: Dynasty Frequent Flyer (Elite Plus),Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,866
It is now day 5 of the strike and China Airlines will have an uphill battle after this gaining customers' trust again, at least here in Vancouver where it is now all over the news since flights got cancelled each day of the weekend, leaving 100's of passengers stranded.
Today's inbound flight is operating as scheduled and the return currently also listed as operating on time but no-one knows if there will be a flight tomorrow.
A refund is of little help when travelers have arrangements worth 100's or 1,000's of $ more unless they have travel insurance, in which case they would most likely receive all their money back from other travel arrangements as well.
Even before the strike CI had to compete mostly based on price, nothing unusual there, but it is definitely operating in the shadow of EVA Air which is more popular with the local community and usually also offers better service. Once this strike is over and who knows when this is going to happen now, it will definitely be a challenge and the only hope is that customers often have a short term memory when it comes to these kind of experiences.
Today's inbound flight is operating as scheduled and the return currently also listed as operating on time but no-one knows if there will be a flight tomorrow.
A refund is of little help when travelers have arrangements worth 100's or 1,000's of $ more unless they have travel insurance, in which case they would most likely receive all their money back from other travel arrangements as well.
Even before the strike CI had to compete mostly based on price, nothing unusual there, but it is definitely operating in the shadow of EVA Air which is more popular with the local community and usually also offers better service. Once this strike is over and who knows when this is going to happen now, it will definitely be a challenge and the only hope is that customers often have a short term memory when it comes to these kind of experiences.
CI is paying the price of giving into all FA demands a year or 2 ago. Now the expectation is that CI can't stop any union demands. I am sure customers are made to suffer but then any industrial action hurts the customer. Also you find that each time you give into the unions the more you raise their expectations and it is always going to happen again. Lets just be logical humans are never fully satisfied and always want more. Those airlines with no negotiation on strikes suffer very rarely from strikes. Again look at Qantas which had quite a few strikes 1 around 10 years ago until the current CEO just said enough is enough and shut the business down for nearly a week.
You will have some customers blaming the airline but you are likely to have a similar number of passengers blaming the striking pilots.
Lucky I don't have any flights at the moment with CI.
Feb 11, 2019, 10:23 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YVR
Programs: AC MM
Posts: 1,478
I don't think it is anywhere that bad.
CI is paying the price of giving into all FA demands a year or 2 ago. Now the expectation is that CI can't stop any union demands. I am sure customers are made to suffer but then any industrial action hurts the customer. Also you find that each time you give into the unions the more you raise their expectations and it is always going to happen again. Lets just be logical humans are never fully satisfied and always want more. Those airlines with no negotiation on strikes suffer very rarely from strikes. Again look at Qantas which had quite a few strikes 1 around 10 years ago until the current CEO just said enough is enough and shut the business down for nearly a week.
You will have some customers blaming the airline but you are likely to have a similar number of passengers blaming the striking pilots.
Lucky I don't have any flights at the moment with CI.
CI is paying the price of giving into all FA demands a year or 2 ago. Now the expectation is that CI can't stop any union demands. I am sure customers are made to suffer but then any industrial action hurts the customer. Also you find that each time you give into the unions the more you raise their expectations and it is always going to happen again. Lets just be logical humans are never fully satisfied and always want more. Those airlines with no negotiation on strikes suffer very rarely from strikes. Again look at Qantas which had quite a few strikes 1 around 10 years ago until the current CEO just said enough is enough and shut the business down for nearly a week.
You will have some customers blaming the airline but you are likely to have a similar number of passengers blaming the striking pilots.
Lucky I don't have any flights at the moment with CI.
We don't have any flights with CI until beginning of March, hopefully things will have settled by then.
Feb 11, 2019, 11:19 pm
#33
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: Enrich
Posts: 449
1. Union changed the demand. It was never clearly stated until Lee made that request on the 9th.
2. How is management poor? When the pilots are asking for the moon?
7 hour flight time
relax blood alcohol testing
none of the crew averaged more than 72 hours flight time per month
CI isn’t making that much money. Pilots and Flight attendants were greedy. I said several years ago when flight attendants strike happened- union is bad for CI. We are just seeing this happening again.
https://www.chinatimes.com/cn/realti...8000786-260405
I would not say they greedy. Until now, CI management didn't even fulfill half of the promised negotiation betwen the FA union during 2016 strike.
https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realti...90209/1514696/
Feb 12, 2019, 3:03 am
#34
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
While I made mistake on flight time, but the relax alcohol is false news made by CI.
https://www.chinatimes.com/cn/realti...8000786-260405
https://www.chinatimes.com/cn/realti...8000786-260405
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549879119.A.89F.html and
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549937005.A.0A5.html
A really big mistake the union made.
Feb 12, 2019, 4:28 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 86
CI starts to cancel flights long haul flights extending into next week..
Looks like JFK, FCO, MEL, HNL, and BNE-AKL segment are the ones that are given up by CI. Short haul flights are still assessed on a daily basis.
Looks like JFK, FCO, MEL, HNL, and BNE-AKL segment are the ones that are given up by CI. Short haul flights are still assessed on a daily basis.
Feb 12, 2019, 1:03 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Incorrect. It's been discussed thoroughly
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549879119.A.89F.html and
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549937005.A.0A5.html
A really big mistake the union made.
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549879119.A.89F.html and
here https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Aviation/M.1549937005.A.0A5.html
A really big mistake the union made.
After viewing the public negotiations CI had, we now know the state of company pilot management. To this day, they still do not have FRMS or utilization of the Jeppesen Model by Boeing for their scheduling. They are only beginning to implement these two, while their fellow airlines have been using these for not just pilots but even FA's! Does CI not remember that part of the CI6 report conclusion was poor scheduling that resulted in extreme fatigue? I get that FRMS and the Jeppesen system are expensive, but come on...
However, CI management has proved to be skilled, experienced, and aggressive negotiators at the table.
Last edited by hayzel7773; Feb 12, 2019 at 1:17 pm
Feb 12, 2019, 3:17 pm
#37
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
The alcohol thing is a totally silly mistake by the union. Part of it is because the old TPU head was fired for alcohol!
After viewing the public negotiations CI had, we now know the state of company pilot management. To this day, they still do not have FRMS or utilization of the Jeppesen Model by Boeing for their scheduling. They are only beginning to implement these two, while their fellow airlines have been using these for not just pilots but even FA's! Does CI not remember that part of the CI6 report conclusion was poor scheduling that resulted in extreme fatigue? I get that FRMS and the Jeppesen system are expensive, but come on...
However, CI management has proved to be skilled, experienced, and aggressive negotiators at the table.
Live-??????????????Live?????
You can make the opinion yourself.
Feb 12, 2019, 10:48 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago, USA
Programs: UA 1MM Gold AA Gold NW Silver Marriott Plat. SPG Plat. Hilton Gold Hertz 5 Star
Posts: 3,218
if a long haul flight like JFK is given up, then do they re accommodate to BR being the easiest or do they try and fly you to ICN and put you on KE?
Feb 13, 2019, 12:06 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT, USA
Programs: Delta Silver, United 2P, SQ, SPG Plat, PC Plat AMB, Hyatt Dia, Hilton Gold, Accor Plat
Posts: 371
My CI return to JFK is (was) 2/19. Flight now cancelled. Nothing from CI. Today I finally was able to contact them on the phone and they informed my entire travelling party of 3 rebooked on BR. But nothing from them, no email, no call. Question: Party was booked on CI in premium economy with seats selected. Checking in online on BR no seats together. Very frustrated with CI. Travelling with a 2 yr old child.
Feb 13, 2019, 12:11 am
#40
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT, USA
Programs: Delta Silver, United 2P, SQ, SPG Plat, PC Plat AMB, Hyatt Dia, Hilton Gold, Accor Plat
Posts: 371
Never again
Even before the strike CI had to compete mostly based on price, nothing unusual there, but it is definitely operating in the shadow of EVA Air which is more popular with the local community and usually also offers better service. Once this strike is over and who knows when this is going to happen now, it will definitely be a challenge and the only hope is that customers often have a short term memory when it comes to these kind of experiences.
Feb 13, 2019, 12:38 am
#41
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YVR
Programs: AC MM
Posts: 1,478
My CI return to JFK is (was) 2/19. Flight now cancelled. Nothing from CI. Today I finally was able to contact them on the phone and they informed my entire travelling party of 3 rebooked on BR. But nothing from them, no email, no call. Question: Party was booked on CI in premium economy with seats selected. Checking in online on BR no seats together. Very frustrated with CI. Travelling with a 2 yr old child.
It is good that they re-booked you on BR and hopefully you can get seats together at online check-in or latest at the airport.
BR does seem to be blocking a lot of seats well in advance, especially in PE.
Feb 13, 2019, 12:52 am
#42
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
Union ask is getting ridiculous every minute
Now they want CI to agree nonpromotion for foreign FO to captain. CI also need to agree on cutting down on foreign pilots every single year.
greedy union
Now they want CI to agree nonpromotion for foreign FO to captain. CI also need to agree on cutting down on foreign pilots every single year.
greedy union
Feb 13, 2019, 1:03 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MCI
Posts: 698
If they start cancelling flights 7 days out, it looks like this is going to take a while and I am now getting concerned about flights we are booked on with CI 2nd week of March. If I could cancel now and get a refund, I would do it right away and re-book on another airline but I know it doesn't work that way.
It is good that they re-booked you on BR and hopefully you can get seats together at online check-in or latest at the airport.
BR does seem to be blocking a lot of seats well in advance, especially in PE.
It is good that they re-booked you on BR and hopefully you can get seats together at online check-in or latest at the airport.
BR does seem to be blocking a lot of seats well in advance, especially in PE.
Feb 13, 2019, 1:21 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
I wouldn't worry about April. It will have to be done with the meetings or the hard way.
Feb 13, 2019, 5:47 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: Dynasty Frequent Flyer (Elite Plus),Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,866