China Airlines (CI) 2019 Lunar New Year Pilot Strike - What is going on?
Feb 10, 2019, 8:29 pm
#16
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Ground staff are extremely angry at the strike. GA even went on TV to say "we always handle the cleanup. More GA's are taking days off because they don't want to deal with the strike" (no face of course). They also had a protest outside the Ministry of Labor today, demanding they stop the strike immediately.
I seriously pity the ground staff. They get no love from management and are left to fend off the angry travelers with no recourse available.
I seriously pity the ground staff. They get no love from management and are left to fend off the angry travelers with no recourse available.
Feb 10, 2019, 8:30 pm
#17
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TFO and I pilots can only last so long before they max out for the month (or week).
Last edited by hayzel7773; Feb 10, 2019 at 8:44 pm
Feb 10, 2019, 8:55 pm
#18
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The original news. The union initially asking for 8hrs, which includes the ground time + flight time, however CI management insist only 8hrs flight time. In the end, union proposes 7hrs flight time instead of 8hrs ground + flight time.
https://udn.com/news/story/7241/3635896
This is due to the reason that normally flight crew and pilots require about 1-2hours at ground for briefing and preparing before departure, then maybe another 30mins+ after arrival. This means that if 8 hours flight time, it equal to total of 10 hours of non stop work.
https://udn.com/news/story/7241/3635896
This is due to the reason that normally flight crew and pilots require about 1-2hours at ground for briefing and preparing before departure, then maybe another 30mins+ after arrival. This means that if 8 hours flight time, it equal to total of 10 hours of non stop work.
1. Every single country goes by FT (flight time). Take a look at US. You will see it’s 8 hour flight time you get 3 crew.
2. Union is asking 7 hour flight time or 8 hour duty time. Either way is world first.
So union is the one that asking for world first.
Feb 10, 2019, 8:56 pm
#19
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As Dici has pointed out, they wanted 8 but because of CI management's change in terms, they adjusted to 7. Striking pilots now approaching 600 as of Tuesday, with more and more pilots signing up. I hope CI get's a fix soon.
TFO and I pilots can only last so long before they max out for the month (or week).
TFO and I pilots can only last so long before they max out for the month (or week).
Feb 10, 2019, 9:12 pm
#20
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As Dici has pointed out, they wanted 8 but because of CI management's change in terms, they adjusted to 7. Striking pilots now approaching 600 as of Tuesday, with more and more pilots signing up. I hope CI get's a fix soon.
TFO and I pilots can only last so long before they max out for the month (or week).
TFO and I pilots can only last so long before they max out for the month (or week).
Its always 8 hour FT. Take look at US regulation. It’s always FT based.
Its union that changed terms.
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...g-flights-need
Feb 10, 2019, 11:08 pm
#21
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No. you and dici are wrong.
Its always 8 hour FT. Take look at US regulation. It’s always FT based.
Its union that changed terms.
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...g-flights-need
Anyways, unless CI adjusts the pre-flight report time to 60 minutes (or less), I don’t see them dropping this demand.
Poor Mgmt!
Last edited by hayzel7773; Feb 11, 2019 at 12:38 am
Feb 11, 2019, 8:41 am
#22
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I was referring to what the pilots wanted, not what the regulation is. The original ask was 8 hours including ground time; clearly they’ve adjusted based on negotiations.
Anyways, unless CI adjusts the pre-flight report time to 60 minutes (or less), I don’t see them dropping this demand.
Poor Mgmt!
2. How is management poor? When the pilots are asking for the moon?
7 hour flight time
relax blood alcohol testing
none of the crew averaged more than 72 hours flight time per month
CI isn’t making that much money. Pilots and Flight attendants were greedy. I said several years ago when flight attendants strike happened- union is bad for CI. We are just seeing this happening again.
Feb 11, 2019, 8:55 am
#23
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1. Union changed the demand. It was never clearly stated until Lee made that request on the 9th.
2. How is management poor? When the pilots are asking for the moon?
7 hour flight time
relax blood alcohol testing
none of the crew averaged more than 72 hours flight time per month
CI isn’t making that much money. Pilots and Flight attendants were greedy. I said several years ago when flight attendants strike happened- union is bad for CI. We are just seeing this happening again.
The 8 hour for 3 people has actually been stated since August, just not whether or not it was Flight time only.
Feb 11, 2019, 9:08 am
#24
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With all the labor movement in the airlines industry in Taiwan, I fear their service quality will soon go downhill from now on, and are heading towards American and European standards. With the union backing, if someone knows he/she can not be fired for poor job performance, there will be no incentives to perform well.
Last edited by Mama; Feb 11, 2019 at 9:48 am
Feb 11, 2019, 10:45 am
#25
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By poor management, I meant I feel bad for them. They are stuck in a bind; on one hand, you want the company to financially succeed but on the other, the government intervention by the MOTC and now even the President and Labor Minister forces your hand. However, by giving the FA's the moon (I know...political factors sigh), they only set themselves up for a battle with GAs and pilots. You can't only allow one work group to benefit while the others get no improvements. The government should not have a stake in CI and instead, let the professionals run it.
The 8 hour for 3 people has actually been stated since August, just not whether or not it was Flight time only.
The 8 hour for 3 people has actually been stated since August, just not whether or not it was Flight time only.
that is why CI is becoming what JAL was. Government should just sell and let it privatize. Then watch CI fail.
Feb 11, 2019, 11:40 am
#26
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6/8 flights cancelled today. If it holds with no agreement by next week you can expect pilots start peeling away from the strike. While striking they don't get paid so some or many won't be as committed as others to continue the strike.
Feb 11, 2019, 1:40 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
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With all the labor movement in the airlines industry in Taiwan, I fear their service quality will soon go downhill from now on, and are heading towards American and European standards. With the union backing, if someone knows he/she can not be fired for poor job performance, there will be no incentives to perform well.
I am glad I have moved most of my flights to JAL already. I only fly award tickets or extremely short haul with CI where I don't have an optimal choice.
If the pilots succeed at CI this time, watch BR will be next.
Feb 11, 2019, 5:45 pm
#28
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You can't really peel away from the strike considering the fact that you had to turn in your airman's certificate as proof of striking. You cannot, in anyway, legally operate the flight without this certificate.
Feb 11, 2019, 6:01 pm
#29
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And they can collect their airman certificate when they decide to give up, the union cannot forceably hold it to keep them striking.At the end of the day the longer the strike goes for the less likely the pilots will get most of their demands.
Feb 11, 2019, 6:36 pm
#30
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It is now day 5 of the strike and China Airlines will have an uphill battle after this gaining customers' trust again, at least here in Vancouver where it is now all over the news since flights got cancelled each day of the weekend, leaving 100's of passengers stranded.
Today's inbound flight is operating as scheduled and the return currently also listed as operating on time but no-one knows if there will be a flight tomorrow.
A refund is of little help when travelers have arrangements worth 100's or 1,000's of $ more unless they have travel insurance, in which case they would most likely receive all their money back from other travel arrangements as well.
Even before the strike CI had to compete mostly based on price, nothing unusual there, but it is definitely operating in the shadow of EVA Air which is more popular with the local community and usually also offers better service. Once this strike is over and who knows when this is going to happen now, it will definitely be a challenge and the only hope is that customers often have a short term memory when it comes to these kind of experiences.
Today's inbound flight is operating as scheduled and the return currently also listed as operating on time but no-one knows if there will be a flight tomorrow.
A refund is of little help when travelers have arrangements worth 100's or 1,000's of $ more unless they have travel insurance, in which case they would most likely receive all their money back from other travel arrangements as well.
Even before the strike CI had to compete mostly based on price, nothing unusual there, but it is definitely operating in the shadow of EVA Air which is more popular with the local community and usually also offers better service. Once this strike is over and who knows when this is going to happen now, it will definitely be a challenge and the only hope is that customers often have a short term memory when it comes to these kind of experiences.
Last edited by yvrcnx; Feb 11, 2019 at 9:35 pm