southpac

just got an email saying

PER, ADL, MEL, SYD, BNE to LAX return for AUD$699. This must be a new low record fare.

Is this partly because Chinese airlines are now able to compete on same routes ? For those who don't know, China has thrown out the one airline(Chinese) one route policy, so now Chinese airlines can compete internationally, where up until now, they've only be able to compete with non-Chinese airlines.

clubeurope

No China hasn't yet thrown out the one airline one route policy, and will not completely remove it just yet, though yes it is removed from the Australia and US sectors.

Unless, that is inclusive or taxes and carrier surcharges, then it wouldn't be too much of a record fare. The mainland airlines have for the past few years been offering the cheapest fares, in part due to cheaper operational charges (staffing, airport operations in the PRC) than that of the likes of Cathay Pacific or Japan Airlines.

Moreover, I don't think there's much impact in Australia-USA fares due to the one airline one route policy being removed because the AUS-USA flights offered by the mainland airlines require a stopover in Mainland China anyways, so in theory all the mainland carriers still can compete with each other with the rule still in place because they are not actually operating the same routes as their stopover/hubs differ from one another.

For example:

China Eastern - SYD-PVG-LAX
China Southern SYD-CAN-LAX
Air China SYD-PEK-LAX

I'd imagine, the one route one airline policy being removed would have the most impact on the fares for direct flights between China and the respective markets as multiple Mainland airlines can operate the same routes now, and would not make as much of an impact for hub and spoke routes like you've mentioned.

southpac

$699 includes everything except if wanting to pay by credit card

clubeurope

I'd have to be honest, that is cheap... unsustainably cheap

southpac

loss leader fares, there are probably not a lot per flight. Might only be 4-10 maximum on days they know they'll never fill.

clubeurope

I agree. I'd imagine that these fares are deliberately not sustainable as they are not meant to be carried onto the long-term. I'd imagine it is made so to attract attention and promote the airline's name for the long term, that is to have them fly and make them want to fly again in the future (at the normal prices given a good experience).

China Southern arguably doesn't have the best reputation and may be trying to show how they are possibly trying to be better. As such, nothing beats word of mouth between happy passengers and their peers.

southpac

all airlines have loss leader fares

FlyerTalker688786

China Southern is know to be the LCC among China's big four. They are in the process to remove even more Business/First class seats to jam in more Coach seats fleetwide. Domestic fleet they have the famous one row only of 4 seats business/domestic first class among its A320/B738/A321 fleet. So they are also nicknamed 'human cargo carrier'.

Bub001

This certainly is not the case with their international long haul fleet. And they are certainly NOT regarded as LCC internationally among China's big four....that would more likely be MU. I cannot speak to them domestically, but internationally they have been pushing their premium offerings (Prem Eco and Bus) - and there is still a mark for their first class offering (though I suspect it is often upgrades...)

southpac

all airlines are reducing seats up front, getting thinner seats to get more bums on seats.

jeffrocowboy

I have yet to travel on one of Chinas big 4 - but there are often good prices which I should take more notice off.

What's the commonly accepted rank order of them?

Thanks

clubeurope

Perhaps the OP didn't mean LCC, but instead that CZ is the worst of the big four? In particular in economy, since that is what is discussed.

Personally, I don't think CZ is that bad...

clubeurope

I'd imagine them being a matter of personal choice, though I've always considered China Eastern to be the worst of the four.

clubeurope

I'd personally think that you'd be surprise to hear that CZ is one of the few carriers choosing to maintain a 9-abreast economy cabin in their 777s, whilst having not such a bad seat pitch of 32''.

moondog

As a Shanghai resident, I'm frequently forced to choose between MU, FM, HO, and 9C. MU is the best in this set. Their 77Ws are 10 abreast, but the pitch is decent, and I love the free WiFi. And, their 330s are actually comfortable in Y.