AJ747M

A colleague missed a PAL flight, and they are trying to charge a PHP 5000 "no show at gate" fee because I checked in online and then did not make the flight. This is not stated anywhere on the fare rules- which say the only fee is 1750 THB + fare difference to change flight.

Has anyone had experience with this? I've been on the line for 45min+ and they insist it needs to be paid as it is an "internal rule" that has been around since Nov '17. Wondering whether to pay it now and try get it refunded later.

dvs7310

A lot of airlines have no-show fees, it'd be in the fare rules if you pull them up on Experflyer, etc. Not sure your friend's itinerary and fare class, but this is just something random I pulled up, imagine it's pretty standard on PR's international tickets. Bolding added by me.


BTW, This used to be a lot cleaner to insert into a thread. Looks like some of the old tools are missing now.

Fyd

Yes, it's in thire fare rules or CoC, have seen it before...
its a ridiculous fee ($100) that was deemed invalid somewhere in Europe I think because there is no loss or cost to the airline...
If you are not a Mabuhay Miles member and are not planning to fly with them again (soon), I'd consider not paying - how will they enforce it?

AJ747M

@Fyd not sure how you could just "not pay" as they will take it from the refund/change themselves? Anyway, the ticket needed to be changed to a later date in this case. After an hour of arguing, they promised to call me back later after "double-checking" for a fifth time- they didn't. When I called again a few hours later they said the fee would not be charged.

Mama

So, did you see the no show fee in your fare rule after all?

AJ747M

@Mama yes & no. The 1750 THB no show fee was in the fare rules. The 5000 PHP "at gate" no show fee is not publicised anywhere. The latter is the fee which was not charged in the end.

Does anyone know if it is legal for PAL to charge this 5000 PHP fee? It isn't anywhere in the fare rules, or anywhere online. Quite ridiculous that they try to charge it...

Edit: it may be somewhere as @Fyd mentioned, but I cannot find it.

Fyd

I looked aroumd and found it:
PAL has a general note in their Conditions of Contract on their website :
H. NO SHOW/NON-USERS FEE - Tickets issued, reissued or revalidated in the Philippines, the booking of which is not cancelled 24 hours prior to the date of departure shall be refunded or revalidated only upon payment of a fee provided under the Carrier's Tariff. The No-show/Non-User's Fee may also apply to tickets issued in other countries depending on the fare rules/conditions of the ticket.

In addition, the fare rules specify the amount, here an example from a domestic flight:
NO SHOW / NON USERS FEE PHP 1000 PER SECTOR INCLUSIVE OF VAT.

Is it legal? Probably not, as PAL can't make a reasonable case that they incur any cost by somebody not flying, quite the opposite! And the fact that they are spelling out "tickets issued in PHL" suggests that they couldn't enforce this for tickets purchased in Europe...
But the CAAP passenger bill of Rights doesn't cover it, so unless somebody takes this to court, there is not much you can do...and I don't expect anybody to don't hat anytime soon....
That's why I said, if you can walk away from the ticket, don't pay. I don't think PAL would take you to court either.
If you still want to change ticket after no-show, you can argue or pay the fee...

s0ssos

I don't get how this is an issue. Most things airlines charge for have no cost or loss. And this one seems like it does have a cost, as you checked in, and have a seat on the plane?

Fyd

Uh... Not sure you understand the situation, example: PAL charges you $50 for a ticket. If you fly, you paid $50. If you don't show, you pay the no-show fee IN ADDITION!
The cost to the airline is marginably lower when you don't fly (weight, fuel, food, drink) then when you fly, yet they charge you extra for not flying. There is absolutely no reason to charge that fee.
And the argument "they could have sold that seat" doesn't make sense either as you paid for it and they have no right to sell it again...
The no-show fee is a total scam...

exwannabe

​​​​​​I think you are the one who misses how this works.

If you do not use the ticket, it is available for use on a future flight (or possibly refunded) subject to a change fee. If you do not show at the gate, then in order to reuse or refund it you owe an extra $50 on the change fee.

If you do not care to reuse or refund the ticket, then you of course owe no money.

s0ssos

I see you have not flown airlines in America. You pay $100. Then if you miss it and want to change it that will be $250

Fyd

Ive flown a few million miles on US airlines. Have you flown PAL?
According to their CoC, you owe the no-show fee whether you change the ticket or not! Hence the suggestion to just walk away, as they can hardly enforce it.And my argument that wouldn't/shouldnt be legal as there is no additional cost to the airline!
If you do want to change after a no-ahow, you owe PAL a change fee, no-show fee and fare difference! While the change fee and fare difference can be justified, it's hard to justify the no-show fee: the airline will re-assign the seat in case of overbooking 30min before departure anyway. So, no additional cost or even opportunity cost either....same applies if flight is not oversold...
Bottom line: the no-show fee is a customer-unfriendly penalty that they can get away with because there is no consumer protection ...

s0ssos

So, if you have flow airlines in the US, how do you justify charging fees when there is no cost to the airline? Whoever thinks of that?

brunos

I do not understand some of the posts here.
Most airlines have a no-show fee that is separate from a change fee.
To me that makes a lot of economic sense.
Whether it is clearly stated in this case is another issue.
You should not bother about it if you drop the ticket (like the last segment of an itinerary). But if you need to use the ticket, then you have to pay it.

You checked in and did not show at the gate when the flight is closing its door.
In some US domestic flights, it is not uncommon to see waitlisted pax waiting for a seat at the gate.
But for most international flights, that is not feasible.. If you don't show up at the gate, after having checked in, the airline cannot fill your seat. The situation would be very different if you had not checked in, as the check-in counter could have assigned your seat to another waiting pax when check-in closes. This is fairly common at airline rush hours (late afternoon). They could even assign it to waitlisted staff on staff tickets as often the case on longhaul travel.
In specific cases, the flight might be quite empty rather than full, but the no-show fee is fixed whatever the load.

The change fee is a constraint on the the flexibility of the type of ticket you chose. The no-show fee is to insure that an overbooked flight does not leave with empty seats. Even on flexible F tickets there is generally a no-show fee.

Fyd

Philippine Airlines doesn't require you to check in. If you BOOK the ticket and do not fly, you technically owe a no-show fee, which is much more stringent than US airlines...while I can understand the argument for a no-show fee after checking in, it's really hard to make that case for a ticket that was purchased, but never checked in on....